Breakingthewall

I don't think so, you should use a lot for that

For me, other roa like snorted or plugged don't work even in very high doses, because my mind adapts at full speed to the gradual rise and never breaks down. What I'm looking for with 5meo is a total breakup. It has to be instantaneous, in 3 or 4 seconds the mind is an empty black space, and then it explodes. The insight or revelations that may take place are not relevant ( they are in low doses) the only thing sought is the rupture itself and the expansion to infinity. It is something physical, not mental, a radical change in frequency, the disappearance of the structures of the mind and the opening to total emptiness. As you have said, it is not so much a psychedelic as a meditative tool.

Interesting! I read about it. I prefer vape because it's violence. What I'm looking is a bomb. Anything smoother doesn't work for my objetive.

I'd say that Waterriver thinks that Leo is prisoner of the form, and he's dragging others to a wrong path, the he points again and again his mistake, like a mission . lets say that Waterriver thinks that enlightenment is something unthinkable, it is the opening of your being to your unlimited essence, and this by definition cannot be thought or said, it can be done. Therefore, indicating that awakening is something concrete can be very toxic for those who are on the path, and that is why they repeat it. maybe I'm wrong

That guy may be trained to endure pain and have the belief that if he does what he did he will have advantages in the future life, and that is all.

That's true. It seems like something designed exactly for that. how do you use it? vaped? what dose?

I think that psychedelic are extremely useful if your goal Is the liberation of your true self. Identify the chains and break them. If your goal is understanding, or exploration and you are still a prisoner of your human chains, you will get confusion. Saying that psychedelic are this or that is nonsense, depends totally of the user. Maybe wilber found some people who got evil, or anything using psychedelic. How many? Hundreds? 😅 I don't think so. Let's be serious, the experience in this area is very limited, then doing categoric statements is a mistake

It is very interesting to see in Sheela the power dynamics inherent in humans. In another era, there would have been a war and many people would have burned at the stake in the public square.

@Water by the River "psychedelics" is a very general definition. 5meo dmt is not the same as lsd or marihuana. I would like to know Wilber's opinion, or yours for example, after 4 or 5 real breakthroughs with 5meo. not only about the trip itself, but about the sensations in the meditation in the following days

I wish he would get over it. Thank you for sharing your pain, it feels like mine for a moment.

Mind says that because it's true. Thousands of generations of humans have lived in constant conditions like the siege of Stalingrad and worse. massacre, slavery, epidemics, and that has a genétical fingerprint. reality is relentless, but at the same time, and paradoxically, its essence is the divine flow of perfect love. This is extremely difficult to understand. Let's say, using the acim terminology you like, that reality offers itself to martyrdom for the sake of the greater glory of its creation.

It is something extremely simple. When there is true love between humans, a mother for her child, two true lovers without barriers who love each other completely, also the love of an artist for his creation, or of a person enlightened by reality, what there is is the open flow of reality without barriers. Reality is that, that creative force, full, total, that fills your heart and soul. As humans we close ourselves to love because of fear, it is inevitable. We come from competition and war, and it is implanted in our genes. barriers, thorns, fear, envy, greed, narcissism and hatred. This closes us down, and also keeps us moving as a species. If we want to open ourselves to the glory that reality is, call it love if you want, but it is a love that is more than love, it is the total, infinite, absolute reality, flowing on itself, we must identify and let fall those thorns, that fear, that greed, that narcissism, and open ourselves to the absolute glory of the infinity .

I could take a gun and shot myself . Then?

Well, it depends on how you look. Most people today feel that they are trapped in a fragile physical body in decay, and that their inescapable future is decrepitude and then something unthinkable and absolutely terrifying called death, which they do not even want to think about, so the normal thing would be to be all the day crying desperately. So people are really very optimistic and strong and despite their horrible situation they keep going.

Agree, They are a necessary starting point. They show you the tip of the iceberg. The problem is that they tell you that they are showing you the entire iceberg and that is a lie, I don't know if they know it or not, probably not.

Well, tolle's example was not correct. To be correct it would be: imagine that you are going to be crucified in 10 minutes. The Romans are already there preparing the cross, with the nails in their hands, the hammer, etc., the whole crowd shouting, you are there waiting for the centurion to arrive to give the order, and Ecart appears with his story of: let's see brother , are you being crucified NOW? not right? Well it's always NOW, so be happy, NOW everything is Perfect. So maybe if the Romans would have a little compassion and before being crucified they would allow you to kill Tolle slowly, then maybe yes, you would be a little happier

Why saying this kind of assets? there is a self, a center of experience that makes decisions. It is very schizophrenic and confusing to say that no. Let's see, right now I'm sitting on a terrace with a coffee enjoying the weather. Now I could decide to start stabbing random people shouting alla akbar, or not do it. I decide, it's obvious, and I decide instead of doing that to go up to my house and vape 25 mg of 5meo just to do something interesting before going to train at the gym. I decide, I, the director of the orchestra, the master, the boss that no one argues with, the absolute sovereign of this life who one day can decide to go up to the 100th floor of a building and fly. Where is the doubt?

That is the core of self help, which is absolutely false 😅. tolle sounds great but it doesn't work, or only works at a very superficial level. A human is an energetic pattern of real existence. If you are crucified, with the nails and all that and hanging from the cross and Eckhart Tolle appears and tells you that now etc... well, you wouldn't do anything to him since you are crucified, but you would think in killing him. The disharmonic vibration that occurs constantly in a person and that we call unhappiness occurs because your energy channels are folded in on themselves. You cannot consciously decide to stop producing that vibration, and everyone knows it because they have tried. You have to go very deep, be very brave, make a true inner and outer journey, to open the enigma that being human means.

They are both, and I will explain it clearly, without the Leo error of: you are imagining reality. you are the absolute in a relative experience. You are the absolute because you are the total infinite, and you are relative because you are the total infinite taking a form among infinite forms. On the surface you are limited by all the other infinite forms of reality, which being infinite cannot not take infinite forms, but just below the surface of the form you are the total infinite abyss. That abyss is exactly the same in me, in you, in a dog and in an atom. It is the absolute. To cleanse the doors of perception is to see through the veil of form and open yourself completely to the abyss, which is unthinkable. Nonduality is superficial, Leo is right, but he is wrong because he mixes the absolute with the relative. His opening is not clean, he maintains much, or part, of the "Leo" form, with what for him is a consciousness that is imagining or projecting images. This is absolutely wrong, dual, egocentric and limited .all forms are absolute dimensions, holons, and all are the absolute beneath the surface. awakening, or enlightenment, is the clear awareness of the absolute without the veil of form. Awareness, or conciousness is always the case, it's a continuous. But it is always limited by the form. Enlightenment is unlimited reality concious of itself. Why form is relative and infinity absolute? Because the form is impermanent. It's circumstance, change, limited, and the infinity is immutable, absolute . Encompass all change, then, there is zero change. Reality is self-conscious, therefore, it is always aware of itself. So, if the form is a guy chased by a pride of lions, reality will be aware of that absorbing form. If you eliminate the lions and are able to make the form more and more tenuous until it becomes absolutely transparent, consciousness, which is always the case because reality entails consciousness, will perceive the absolute, what you are. and this is extremely challenging, because it is infinite. It is not something normal, as Spira and Ralston say, they are limited, they do not know what they are talking about. It is something from another dimension: the unlimited dimension, and "you" as form are used to the limited dimension. Leo gets this right, it's much deeper, infinitely deeper.

Haha I don't blame you, but the question is that we are not talking about psychedelic states but about complete openness to naked reality, to the perception of the infinite by itself without the clothing of form, to pure hardware without the confusion of maya. In short, to the total cleaning of the doors of perception. You cannot live like this 24/7, it may be something that is always in the background, but you are going to see the appearance and perceive it as finite, because that is what this dimension of existence is like. Meditation, or psychedelics, have the function of making those doors glass for a few moments. note that what I said yesterday was with 2 small puffs of weed and two hours of meditation. is this psychedelic state? I could have held a press conference if necessary. The problem is not: all those who make psychedelics blah blah blah like Wilber or whoever says. is: some of those who make psychedelics and persevere in their confusion, because they have not cleansed their being of fear, narcissism, sadness, lack, etc. etc.

Leo In his answers he does what he always does: he mixes the relative with the absolute. He says: you invented Buddha. That is a total error, on the absolute level, Buddha does not exist directly, he is mixed with the totality, on the relative level, Buddha is a possibility of the infinite as real as you. The whole Leo error comes from not differentiating relative Leo from absolute Leo. but he is right when he says that he spira, etc., they have not opened themselves to reality in all its depth, the same as you 😉.

Our perception can be absolutely clear, that is what this work is about.

Yes, but I am not trying to define existence, but rather explaining a moment in which existence has been cleansed of all its colorful clothing and has shown itself naked. It is always now, but now veiled, that creates time. If the veil dissolves, time disappears and the absolute manifests. The absolute has several facets, or can be perceived itself from differents angles. It is a mistake if you think: they are just visions, the one who sees them is the absolute. No. reality sees itself, there is no subject that observes. When reality manifests itself as total emptiness or total love, they are not two facets that an observer, always the same, the empty consciousness, observes. There is no such thing as empty consciousness, reality is self-conscious. There is no reality without awareness of itself, not awareness without reality. reality is infinite and is self-aware of its infinity, there is no such thing as consciousness projecting an image of nothing . does not exist. When the infinite void happens t ultimate reality manifest in it's essence, it's not an object of consciousness. It's reality concious of itself. Now waterriver would say: there are some rests of identification in you, that's why you have that experience. But I don't agree, that is the reality, the infinity perceiving itself without barriers. There is not something, let's say, superior, called conciousness, that create the infinity. It's just the infinity, that is empty and full same time . That is the subtle mistake that I see in waterriver, but who knows, maybe it's me who is wrong

You are talking in the mental level. What means now? Now is the existence. You can't see the existence with the mind, you have to drop the mind completely. Zero mind.

Look, the absolute openess to the emptiness is an energetic happening. It's not something that you realized, it's something that opens in you, that changes your pattern of existence and erases everything. It's something that frozen your blood in your veins.