Breakingthewall

Absolute reality is not an experience, is the substance of which experiences are made. you cannot have an experience without perception because experience is perception. Absolute reality is being, the total potential that exists given the absence of limits, it cannot be nothing because it would be limited to nothing, it is everything, which is absolute. It is total potential, that is why it unfolds in infinite facets. Then perception appears, if perception couldn't appear reality would be limited, but as you see perception is, then perception is always the case, like everything else. If something appears once means that appears always, and everything appears because there are not limits. You could say that no perception has to be too, but no perception is excluded by perception, same than non existence is excluded by existence, that's why they are absolute, because it's opposite don't exist

You don't need to do psychedelic, everything that exists is perfect because reality is infinite, then anything that exists is coordinated to infinity. A depressive though is infinite perfection, like anything else. It doesn't mean that I like it, but that I don't like is a mental structure that is infinite perfection.

It's not that the self is not real, is that it isn't what you ultimately are. It's like saying that being a worker isn't real because you are a human. It's real, but it's just an aspect of what an human can be. But realizing existence is not so easy because it's absolute, then it can't be contrasted with anything else. To realize it you have to remove all the identifications, and for me the the way is in two senses, emotional, that means open yourself, overcome the fear totally, and mental, understanding what infinity means, how in absence of limits anything can't have any meaning. God is impossible, because it's a limit, it's the big boss who decide what's happening. It's just an identification, the ego can't live with them

More than fall away gets like transparent, then the sense of self gets weaker and you realize that what you really are is the substance of the reality. It's not a "you" because is nothing definite, but it's what you are.

Impossible for existence ceasing to exist, but existence is not an experience, experiences happen in existence. Any experience is relative, needs two things, time, perception. We as a self are an experience that is happening, a reflection of existence. The material of what experience is made is existence, and that's what we are , the material, not the experience, then you and another are the same, because the substance is the same. You are the substance, not the conciousness or perception. Perception is something that is happening, is relative to another thing. Perception or conciousness is made of existence, like everything else. You said that you don't exist. That's the same that you are not real right?

The self exist as a relative appearance, it's the same than saying that pain doesn't exist. It exists relatively. Saying that one thing is real and another false is not a good pointer, it's much closer saying that one thing is absolute and another relative. What is absolute can't dissapear, what is relative yes.

It's impossible. What is possible is that your concrete structure dissapear, the memory and the perception as a human. There are infinite structures and all of them are a reflection of the absolute. The thing is that the absolute is not an experience, the experience happens in the absolute. It's a very difficult to realize because the self is created by the experience and is the self who wants to realize.

It's only one reality, the now, and in the now many appearances arise. If there is no appearance, like if you take propofol, or you die, existence still exist, just your brain stop, not mine. It's very difficult to see beyond the self

Obvious, from an absolute perspective it's exactly the same, there is nothing special being sad or happy. The difference is relative, it's like saying that it's better to be rich than poor. It's better relatively. Maybe sadhguru thinks that rich people go to heaven and poor people to hell 😅

Eternal means that it never began and it never ends. This means that it is not extensive, large, enormous, but rather it has no duration. It lacks dimension. dimension is an appearance that occurs in eternity. Infinity is dimensionless, it is simply now. Everything that appears appears is the eternal now, and the eternal now is what we are, what everything is. Infinity doesn't mean incommensurate because it's enormous extension, means that has not extension. Extension is an appearance, duration the same. Time and space are appearances that happens, same than experience, perception, or self. If you remove all only the eternity remains, and you are that. It's nothing, but it's everything.

🤣I'm not a teacher, just someone who uses others as support to clear his mind. I'm using all you to help me to understand, then i say what i understand and i see the mistakes, the little nuances. I guess all of us do that, then in some sense all of us are teaching the others and learning from the others

Sounds perfect. That's the way

For me there are two faces, the relative and the absolute. I don't live in the absolute face, I can open myself to the absolute in some moments and the absolute if manifested in some extent all time, but I live in the relative , i get worried if money doesnt flow, i dont like excessive loneliness , future projects are important, health too, etc. the relative is very beautiful too, everything is coordinated, perfect. You just have to look the good things, what is more real, open, and enjoy life the most possible

Without true friendship you are alone, and being alone means that if you broke your two legs you are fucked. Humans are social beings, don't construct solid relationship is a mistake imo. Imo It's important to have relationship where you know that you are going to be selfless in case of trouble and the others too. For me it's simply do things that I like, I can't do things that I don't like. I don't care about standards, but I care a lot about wasting my time is something that motivates me

You have to work because you have to contribute to the society, that gives you a lot, then better do a work that you love. That's difficult, you have to fight for it, be smart. You are a social being, you need social relationships. Better find real relationship, with true loyalty and love. That's very difficult, you have to be very smart again, because the norm is people using each other. And at for that you have to give yourself to the others, not using them. Again it's not easy You also could stay at home meditating and fooling yourself thinking that you are out of the sistem when you live in a house and eat food who came from the other side of the world and wear clothes that other people do with their work, and using internet as a social succedaneum. Or you could go to a cave like in old times and be alone there with nothing, really out of the world, but almost no one does that

It's like having a double personality. For a while the open personality is operational and reality is timeless, absolute and clean. another time the closed personality is operative and reality is struggle and madness, exchanging several times a day. It's not that one is real and the other false, just are two perspectives

Brown like shit you mean? It's more brown / black. Dark chocolate. Shit to spread. Sad people without hope working as slaves who are going to get old to be desperate in a hospital terrified of death. Party! Hallelujah! Let's reincarnate in Afghanistan! 🤣 Or in any place, in Europe. Most of people is crazy, in the way of the depression. Grabbing lies and deceiving themselves to never look at the face of their reality. If you manage to have one real relationship of loyalty and love in your life, you are very lucky. Usually what is common is using the others, even in the families. It's what the society is about This is the form, but the essence, the substance, is the divinity of reality. It's not easy to see the divinity in the human society at all

Really most of people are not thinking in fame, power and that. Usually people is trying to be happy, find love and have a good life. The problem is not their intention, it's the reality, and their inner configuration As you have rightly said, we are natural beings. we have created the social contract by survival. We complain that the ego is unpleasant and boring, but recently the ego was tribal wars, slavery, total submission of women and extreme violence. I guess it wouldn't be much fun either. Seems that the path is going in the right direction, but let's see, it's a slow evolution

The ego feels like shit, obviously, everyone is unhappy. this is a reality. Human dynamics are extremely complicated. a true enigma full of shit, selfishness and falsehood layer after layer. And very boring, superficial and frustrating, same than your life if you don't fight hard against it, that's the inertia of the humans. but it is what it is, and it is reality. If human dynamics were wonderful we wouldn't be talking about it. But you have to penetrate the psyche, open yourself to others and look for openness, truth, direct connection. It's obviously not easy, first you have to purify yourself from shit. This is more difficult that it seems.

It's impossible that what it is happening is being ordered by a will, since that will would in turn be ordered by another will, which would be, etc etc to infinity. In reality there are no limits and God is a limit. God cannot exist, reality happens because it happens, it is an infinite flow that flows on itself and creates infinite forms, infinite reflections. They are all made of the same substance, and you are that substance, not the will or the form. The will is an appearance that the substance takes, the same as a stone or the self. Everything that seems to happen is appearance, feelings are appearance, thoughts are the sensation of being the center of an experience, of perceiving something. All that is appearance, reality is the material from which all that is made, that is what we are.

You are missing that the relative is the absolute, and the ego also. The point of spirituality is open yourself to the absolute, then see the absolute in the relative. Anything bad that you see in the relative is relative to you, then it's your ego who project those qualities in the ego. The challenge is realizing the absolute in the ego, the ego is divine, because it's made of the substance of the reality. Just see the substance, not the form. Difficult? Of course, extremely. Impossible? Never.

There are deeper ways to live the relative. anything relative is made of the substance of the absolute, and the relative path is deep, full of facets and connections. Saying that relative is negative is a mistake, since it exists and you can feel its beauty and fullness at every moment. It is the ego that sees negativity and lack, being human it is very difficult not to see it, if you were an animal in the jungle or a fish in the ocean you would be relative but without ego. We have an ego, but the ego is also a living being full of nuances and depth, capable of connecting deeply with other beings, because the ego is made of the same substance than everything else

@gettoefl I don't see it that way, because from a relative perspective you are really separate. You have to eat to live, and to do that you have to kill other beings that want to live, that's how it works, you can't mix the relative and the absolute, if you do you find front yourself in wall all the time, since you're fooling yourself. From an absolute perspective everything is the same, from a relative perspective it is not. Relative perspective is not false or illusory, it is relative. If you really want to open yourself to the absolute perspective you have to understand that from the absolute perspective Hitler is the same as Jesus Christ, but from the relative perspective it is different. How could you trascend the limits imposed by the body? And why would want you to do that? It's deny the body because you don't like how the relative works, and that is ego. It's unrealistic, your body steal space to other bodies, to plants, animals, etc. the only way to trascend the body is kill yourself.

@gettoefl Thanks for appreciating. If the logical mind contemplates the implications of the absence of limits long enough, the conclusion is inevitable. Do not underestimate the power of the mind, it is the mind that creates time and movement and that closes, if the mind truly understands that time and movement are relative, it understands that everything it perceives is relative and can open to its absolute nature. It is not something let's say mystical, it is inevitable, inescapable, real, simply the reality.

There are two faces of the same thing. The form and the substance. The extremely difficult and and counterintuitive is that what you really are is substance, and substance is unlimited being. The form that this substance takes is a structure that understands at a given moment that it is the substance, but conceptually. The substance understand it totally, because being is understanding. the understanding that arises from the form is an emergency that really means absolutely nothing. It means something relatively to this concrete form that is going to disappear. If this form were an ant, this understanding would mean absolutely nothing. Actually the ant and the human are at the same level of understanding. At an absolute level they are omniscient since they exist and that is all that can be known. On a relative level, the ant understands how to make an anthill and humans understand many other things, which compared to infinity are zero. Enlightenment is the total opening to absolute understanding, to existence. It is not a conceptual understanding, it is the realization of something obvious that is not seen because the structure of the self veils it, but that is perceived with absolute clarity if this structure is, let's say, opened. It is existence outside of time, without form, which always is. It has no dimension or characteristics but it is everything. Over all it's you. You are that, it's totally obvious. You knew that when you were a fetus, an ant know it, an atom, everything. "Know" in the sense of being. Do you remember when you were 2 years old? You totally knew that you are, the existence knows that exists, it's not conceptual or mental, it's the very fact of being .