Breakingthewall

Then be lobotomized is the goal? If you don't reach clarity, you will be deceived, it's how it works . The deception is very deep

If I'm giving my best to create a business, a long-term project that will make money, do something positive for society and also have a beautiful activity that I like and some guys are regularly robbing me and threatening me, and at some point the opportunity arises to get rid of them in some way, say by burying them in a ditch after shooting them in the head and I know that it won't have any legal consequences... well, I'd consider it cowardly not to do it. Plus, it would give them the chance to be reincarnated into something less of a son of a bitch. Win win. That's life.

One thing is the absolute reality and another the relative. You need food to live, same do you need authentic human relationship to be balanced and not depressed. The more you open yourself to the absolute, the more independent you become from the relative, but up to a certain point. Openness to the absolute makes you see the need to be totally authentic, not to engage in toxic, false behaviors, tending to extract energy from others, since you obtain unlimited energy from yourself and these behaviors close, block, and you see clearly how they harm you. Then you can find real, authentic, clean relationships, without toxicity, something that in other circumstances is almost impossible.

It's important if you are interested in obtaining clarity to open yourself to the absolute. Most spirituality is very corrupt because it comes from a tradition of swindlers. In medieval Japan, China, India, people became monks to eat, and the clever one would say: I heard a crow cawing and I thought: what does a crow say when it doesn't caw? The sky and the earth. And at that moment enlightenment came. Then people worshipped him. It's like Sadhguru: I was on a hill and suddenly the sky and the earth were me, I cried for the first time in my life and enlightenment came. Please give me your money. All this, these terms like illusion, nirvana, etc., come from corruption and lies. Is there any truth in spirituality? I don't know, maybe absolutely nothing, maybe something, but by default doubt is the best option

Yes, So you could say that the mundane takes a backseat and the essence of reality takes center stage, but not that it is an illusion. Illusion is a confusing term that implies deception. Mundane reality is not false, it is more or less important depending on the importance you give it.

I get upset too fast, sorry, I get very focused in that stuff then I answered you in an stupid way. Nobody is perfect 😅

Yes, make a mental construction of the reality is useless, what we try is being open to what reality is, and any label like "illusion" or anything else is an hindrance. According Alan watts, what would be the goal of that zen student?

. Any koan at the end is an hindrance too. Who is who listen the sound? Implies a lot of mental construction. In a empty mind that koan can't exist, an empty mind is beyond "who", "listen" and "sound". This subject, action and objet are 3 hindrances, then they can help you to twist the mind in a direction, but is some moment you have to forget any koan. Why bassui, or Ramana maharshi, ask always: what I am? Who listen etc? Is that not in the surface? Are mental structure, toxic if you really want to open yourself. Don't you think so? But you never say what you think, you keep it like a secret 😅.

Why it is an illusion? An illusion that someone has? Who? You? But you said that you are an illusion. Illusion means something that anyone is imagining. If there is not someone imagining, and only that thing that you call illusion exist, then it's not an illusion, it's the reality

This is the path of life, the movement what we are doing. It's so twisted that's seems a joke, it seem designed to be difficult, like a very difficult mental game where you have to coordinate the external and the internal

And I think that more is possible. I think it's possible be totally open to the absolute in another level. The absolute is unthinkable, is what you are, what is hidden in your heart, the big mistery, the reality

And then, when you can be out of the form, just open to the moment for long, without any interpretation, you can intuit the absolute. The absolute is not energy, or flowing, or conciousness, it's what you are beyond the conciousness, the real thing, the source of the conciousness.

The thing in another words is that you realized that the form is just form, with nothing else behind. It's transparent, like an hologram, has not meaning. You were totally attached to the meaning, same than me or anything else. When you perceive the absence of meaning you perceive the absence of everything, but that's the vision of a drug addict that is in the paradise and there is not cocaine, then he perceive that there is nothing. There is no meaning, but there is substance. The substance is the reality, it's real, exist. It's you. You are not a person, are the substance of the reality, the person is form, and you already saw that the form is empty, then only the substance remains. Open yourself to it and that's it. What prevents the realization of the true nature is the form. If the form reveals as empty loose it's strength Why not commit suicide? Because seems that it's a path that we have to follow, it's not just form, it's the flow of the reality

@Asia P This is a very delicate subject, people don't understand the scope of letting go of all their human ties, you do understand it, because you saw the absolute emptiness, the absence of meaning, the total loneliness, you have looked in the face the limitless void that opens before you. People say blah blah but they have never done it, they always grab something. God, anything. But you saw the void, I totally understand it. Then the only possibility is open yourself to the void, dissapear in it and open yourself, not be you anymore. It's extremely difficult, a lot of hindrances. It's here and now, not in another planet or moment, but the mind is running and running, attaching you with fear to make you an structure. Go deep in this work is crazy

That interpretation is real, ok, then we could say that suffering is some energetic frequency, and reality itself an energetic configuration. Really physics say without any doubt that matter is a state of energy, you can transform matter in energy. And what is energy? Is it something? It's the vibration of the material of the reality. And what is the material of the reality? Leo would say: mind. Ok, and what is mind? Not admitted the answer: the same than a dream. Because a dream is something, is a vibration, an energetic configuration, like anything else but in different frequency than a stone for example, but the same matter. Then, what is this matter? This matter is you. There is not another definition or answer. This matter is what arises from the unlimited. The fact of absence of limits , the total vastness make inevitable that you arise. You are, encompassing what is impossible to think, the unlimited. Then you are unlimited, and that fact makes that energy exist and taking form. It's very difficult to perceive yourself naked, without any mental creation around. Don't underestimte how difficult it is because if not you are going to say: I get it, and would be just an idea. Then, what is the difference between real and illusion? There is any? What means: illusion? Means the opposite of real. Then, what's real?

There is not love there, it's absolutely scary and depressive, close to horrible, but it's the barrier between the human and the divine. It's like death, but if you are able to open yourself to it without any reservation, your heart opens and in it there is everything, the source. If you have had that experience it's because for you it's easy to get deep states of detachment of the human, so go for it, search the void and the infinite loneliness as much as you can, in it is what you are looking for , but not being loved, it's being life, be love

Good luck with your deception.

Sure but I don't believe at all that you are there, nor me or anyone here, and almost no one single person in the world

The correct answer being enlightened would be: if I see my son in agony I would see the perfect beauty in it and I would be happy for him because he's burning his karma to arrive to the absolute opening in the next stage. But being honest, would be that?

Your problem is self deception, but I can't solve it, then good luck with it Yeah sure. That's self help, aka self deception. Ask Buddha, life is suffering. Karma, suffering ,engine of evolution.

Sure, then if I crucify your son in front you and you see him in agony for 3 days , you would see it beautiful because the body is not him

Well I saw some people dying in a way that I would call horrible, people have cancer and those shit , not only in tv, it's real, happens every moment sorry to say, but when I read you I only perceive arrogance and self deception

Good, it's the first stage to real opening. You have to face this emptiness again and again until you are more or less comfortable with it. No meaning, no content, absolute void. Be confident in that it's just a stage, after the void the whole opens and you are that.

In fact human life is not beautiful, if you compare human life with any other being, everything is in harmony except humans, seems that human are like a transition stage where reality is given birth to another dimension, and humans are the intermediate stage, and the pain of the birth is the huge human suffering that is the engine of evolution. Most of humans are unconscious of their level of suffering, and they deceive themselves with self help techniques to avoid face directly they darkness, because would be unbearable

Btw, that guy, bassui, was a real genius, we should read a bit about him, his life and his teachings, that seems simple but are very deep Words are absolutely necessary to free the mind, are very powerful.