DocWatts

Don't become a part of the 'Proudly Ignorant' mentality that"s become popular these days.

I'll second all of this; very well put. I'll also add that one of our two political parties has backslid over the last half century from a more moderate Conservative Party to a Corporatist Plutocracy and finally to a proto-fascist party vulnerable to Cult like thinking. There are a number of undemocratic institutions in America that give these people an outsized influence in American politics, with the Electoral College being one of the Prime examples. While people like Trump didn't create the divisions that exist in our society, he and his ilk have become experts and exploiting and exasperation economic and racial tensions for thier own personal gain. They also go out of thier way to block systemic reforms that meant to begin fixing the economic and social conditions that have given rise to palpable resentment and anger in a large section of the country.

Is there any particular period or person or historical event that you're interested in? That would be a great jumping off point.

Could anyone who came to power in Germany look as bad as Hitler? The effect that certain people in positions of power have on thier society are such that the culture and institutions of a society are irrevocably altered. The only way I see a future leader being as bad as Trump is if they shared his fascistic tendencies while also being competent in thier attempts to destroy democracy. And it's far from a given at this point whether or not a figure like that will eventually come to power in the United States. But that figure is not going to come from a Centrist politician who's only planning on running for one term as President.

I've said this before on another thread, but Leo is someone with hundreds of hours of content on a wide variety of topics, so it's not unexpected or even undesirable to disagree with him in several areas. Be careful of accepting actualized.org content uncritically, and make sure not to center your worldview around any one person or idea. Remember that Spiral Dynamics is just a model, albeit a very useful one, and keep its limitations in mind.

In front of the White House right now...

But didn't you hear? Trump is actually a secret genius according to an anonymous poster on 8chan. Conspiracy theorists, I swear...

There's a core of MAGA supporters that more or less behave as if they were in a Cult; no amount of reconciliation or reasonableness on your part will be enough to get them to abandon the Cult of Personality they've fallen under. Some portion of this group are literal white supremacists who subscribe to a fascist ideology; these people need to be socially ostracized from polite society, as allowing thier views to become normalized is extremely dangerous. Moderates on the other hand, or Conservatives who aren't Trump loyalists, should absolutely be reached out to and included. But we need to be able to draw distinction between people with whom we have political disagreements, and people operating in Bad Faith to undermine Democracy.

Similar to Spiral Dynamics, for as powerful as the Hegelian Dialectic is, I tend to see a lot of sloppy applications of it (for the H.D., often by Conspiracy Theorists who happened to take an intro level philosophy class at some point). Nevertheless, there's a number of ways you could use it too look at systems, such as: Thesis : Late Stage Capitalism / Neo - Liberalism Antithesis : Socialism (from the Left). Also Fascism (from the Right) Synthesis : Social Democracy (better scenario), -OR- White Ethno-State Plutocracy (worst case scenario).

Don't particularly agree with the McCain's politics and wouldn't have voted for him, but what a stark contrast between this man and Trump. One accepts defeat with humility, congratulates his opponent, and uses his concession speech to send a message of unity. The other whines and cries like a toddler while inciting civil unrest and blaming everyone but himself for losing the election. Also a good reminder that people of Integrity did exist at one time in the Republican Party, and it wasn't always the pro-fascist organization that it devolved in to.

Very true. Goes to show how pivotal leadership is in either encouraging or disapproving of that sort of behavior. No way an equivalent of the MAGA Cult would have reached the status it did with out a charismatic figurehead capitalizing upon fear and resentment.

Sadly I think this is an 'out of sight, out of mind' issue for many Americans. Until more attention is brought to this issue, and Puerto Rico becomes a spotlight of national attention, I don't see this obvious injustice changing.

Seconded! Thank you!

Guess the first 25 or 30 years of my life where I assumed the fascism question to have been largely settled was just an illusion.

How about we push to get some oversight over Presidential authority, and re-assess our nuclear weapons policy ASAP before we get another Sociopath who's intentionally trying to steer the country into an iceberg.

The man certainly has a way with words. It's like listening to a modern day Shakespeare in all of his eloquence.

How many Republicans on the national stage have publicly repudiated and broken ties with Trump? I can think of a few offhand (Mitt Romney, Arnold Schwarzenegger of all people); but it's far from being even a sizeable minority.

That's the question. Is the next Republican candidate going to be another fascist, or will there be at least some small degree of self reflection in the next four years? John Mccain and Mitt Romney certainly come across as reasonable, sane people when you put them side by side against Trump. Hell, a swing towards Ron Paul style libertarianism would be a much healthier direction to emerge out of a potential schism on the right.

Was more just entertaining the possibility, but sadly we have a terrible record in this country of having Presidents be held responsible for the crimes they've committed in Office. Not to equate Trump with someone like Nixon for example, as Trump is on another level entirely; I really hope that Trump on trial for the crimes he's committed will discredit him in the eyes of at least some of his followers, but I have my doubts.

Dan Carlin makes a somewhat compelling case that one way to de-escalate the cascade to Civil War would be to give Trump an easy way to leave Office, rather than setting up a situation where his Survival is basically on the line the second he leaves office. Makes some interesting parallels to the fall of the Roman Republic, where retributive lawsuits for public figures leaving office created an escalation feedback loop that lead to Civil War. As much as it chafes against my sense of justice to let Trump get away with the horrible crimes he's committed, from a harm reduction standpoint it makes at least some sense. Not sure if I entirely agree, but it may take some really outside of the box thinking to avert the very real possibility of an eventual Civil War. One one hand we don't want to incentivize the idea that you can commit crimes in public office and get away scott free, but something has to disrupt the course of polarization in this country.

Unless something drastic happens, the election is basically decided. I think some of the states are doing recounts, but that is highly unlikely to change the overall results. Plus legal challenges may possibly drag out making it official for several weeks.

Making claims of false equivalency between the two sides only serves to empower the pro-fascist MAGA Cult. Anyone who's not able to make a clear distinction between someone who's pretty par for the course in American politics, and someone who's intentionally steering the country into an iceberg to serve his own selfish agenda is obviously arguing in Bad Faith, and has most likely has been indoctrinated into a Cult of personality. Don't waste your time arguing with these people, and let the mods hit them with a Ban Hammer if they continue to spread misinformation.

False equivalency is the Maple Syrup that MAGA pours on thier Authoritarian pancakes.

Just look to the United States for a case study of how dangerous it is to not Integrate the lower Stages into your Society in a healthy and non-destructive way.

And probably broke as well.