Vrubel

Rupert Spira has said a cup of tea is more exotic than enlightenment. S:

In a healthy democratic society, people must be allowed to express themselves within their integrity. The principle of free speech was virtually non-existent throughout human history so don't take it for granted. It's literally a product of thousands of years of societal evolution. Keep in mind that freedom of speech (within legal limits) only works as a principle when each and every citizen has it. American democracy has survived Trump so it will be just fine with Carlson don't be so keen on your impulse to shut down dissenting voices, that's ego in its purest form.

Maybe a stupid question, but can't you take a smaller dose to experience the colossal pleasure without it being frightening and nearly suicidal? Don't you dare die on us(;

@Aaron p @zikzak The come-up phase of 5-meo is never supposed to be gentle or easy. So never expect that. The come-up is where the rubber meets the road and the bulk of the spiritual purification happens. So if you care about lasting spiritual purification, the slowness that comes with plugging is definitely a plus. As for the nausea. In Dutch we have a word for puking called "overgeven" which literally means surrender. If you are feeling nauseous during a trip you must surrender to the idea that you might puke all over the floor. Before a trip, I always clear away the carpet from under my bed so if I puke on the floor it will be easier for me to clean. (I have actually puked up some stomach acid during one trip, it is not that big of a deal as your mind makes it up to be.) Having said that, I have no idea about the effects that 5-meo has on you personally. Maybe plugging is not the best option for you. I can only speak from my own experience.

@Forestluv I will stop my discussion right here. I feel your projection and confirmation bias is so thick, you don't even have the ability anymore to interpret my words in the way I mean them. Never did I say that 90% is my bar for homophobia to be problematic. If you are not putting in the effort to be fair to me and to even see my points. Why should I continue on?

@Forestluv I meant accepting the staggering data off course.

@Forestluv I will look into your Robert E. Lee arguments and hopefully I will be able to reply or even start a new thread tomorrow. Going to bed now(;

What!? are you even reading what I write? Please stop this projection.

@Forestluv I agree with most of your points and respect your worldview. A few things though: This is what I said: "I see the South as America’s battered slow learning rebel kid that has historically embodied much of America’s darkest aspects. From slavery, decimation after the civil war, race relations, and consistent abject poverty. All of these abuses combined with the humanity, good and musicality of the people, give the land a certain character and poetry." I encompass it all and deny nothing. I was open from the beginning: If for example there is proof that 90% of southerners are homophobic, I have no problem with accepting that and seeing it as problematic. Though my larger point of understanding and not dehumanizing still stands. Confederate Generals were not slave traders. Robert E. Lee was famously against slavery.

I am not minimizing or apologizing in any way, don't project this onto me. I am emphasizing other aspects of the South that often goes ignored in the media. I want people to avoid caricaturization and disdain for a whole section of the population. Like: in the political arena, you can give them hell. But people please, don't dehumanize and don't get overly frustrated. I am not saying you are wrong here. The widespread lost cause myth which states that the civil war was because of taxes and not because of slavery is false and very problematic. Also, confederate symbols are routinely used by hate groups. Nonetheless, I will still plea for understanding of what the civil war and its direct aftermath meant for the collective-consciousness of white southerners. (before I get demonized and projected upon for stating the aforementioned, I want to preempt: I am talking about understanding, not agreeing-with. The same way you can understand why Germans voted for Hitler. Well, pardon me for seeing beauty. You are being royally unfair here. I was not romanticizing the Antebellum South, Jim Crow, or the good old white-utopia South. Please have some nuance. It is abundantly clear that I called out all the hardships and evils. In my view, blacks form an integral and inseparable part of the unfolding story called The South.

I would love to go road tripping throughout the south, and see with my own eyes. Because the media will often focus in on the extreme, outrageous and sensational. Is that fair? I don’t know. I am sure they are not lying but they also are not giving the full picture. for example I heard that the state of Mississippi removed a confederate emblem off it’s flag. So there is also undeniable progress going on. I see the South as America’s battered slow learning rebel kid that has historically embodied much of America’s darkest aspects. From slavery, decimation after the civil war, race relations and consistent abject poverty. All of these abuses combined with the humanity, good and musicality of the people, give the land a certain character and poetry.

Do you have some serious data backing this up? One district as an example is not a proper indication for boxing-in all rural people across America. I am genuinely interested in how widespread these outlandish conspiracies are amongst rural Americans. In my opinion, it's kinda overblown because this extreme group seems so loud and harbors a lot of media attention, like for example Muslim extremists. But I am open to being proven wrong.

Haha, that's one lovable southerner. Yeah, finally some nuance: not all rural people are the same, and most of them don't care about crazy conspiracies. Johnny Cash is a rural American, are we gonna hate on him(;

I never blamed the left. Thats just ridiculous of you to say. I pointed out a commen feature on the left which is not very helpful. And in my opinion even quite toxic. I made a plea for compassion and self reflection. Because yeah, the “left” is supposed to be the more mature one. And I have a bias towards questiong the common attitudes and beliefs of a group for the purpose of generating more sophistication and personal growth. In my opinion that’s the real purpose of debate. Leo, I see you as a teacher and respect you but your attitude here is just something I can not go on board with.

I am not gaslighting at all. Reasonable nuanced progressives see that demonizing rural Americans is not the way to go, and can get toxic very quickly. Don't box me in, I am not a right-wing conservative. You are kinda proofing my point here. The masses of People are always ignorant, especially when life is a real struggle, so what? You can’t start a civil war like in the olden days to force progressive policy. Besides rural people are very diverse and not all MAGA. I understand your frustration with the ignorance, but ridiculing and demonizing is not a very loving thing to do. Kinda setting a bad example in my opinion. It’s likr being frustrated at muslims that they have backward beliefs and in the process ridiculing and cavalierly dismissing muslims as people.

On this forum, I heard multiple times people say including @Leo Gura that psychedelics are not an effective tool for lifting up your baseline consciousness and that other spiritual practices will fill in that function better. But on the other hand, I also read reports where people say they have experienced very solid shifts from psychedelics. For me personally, I feel I belong to the second category because whenever I come out of a trip I really feel as if a part of me has died and that there is now less of me. Especially after going through the backlash, the heightened base-line solidifies more. For example, a few months ago I did a trip that actually wasn't that deep, but it has nonetheless heightened my baseline consciousness to a degree where I am still getting used to it because it still feels kinda "foreign", for a lack of a better word. Often times I hear that psychedelics are a catalyzer and that's true, most of the heavy lifting for permanent change comes from consciously going-through and surrendering in the backlash. But still, that process happens kinda organically, I don't feel like I need to hardcore disciple myself to do hours-long meditation sits or some esoteric yoga because I find psychedelics and their backlashes already powerful enough for going through this journey. Am I wrong in taking this attitude? When does your base-line shift the most?

Here we go again with MAGA and ridiculing rural Americans. The rioters were not that many. If Norway had a population of 300 million people they would also have their own “MAGA” rioters. Here is a radical idea: maybe progressives dismissing and arrogantly looking down on rural Americans is an integral reason for why they are so attached to Trump.

@Nahm Yeah, I get that. Consciousness is the "incommunicable basic force". You can only talk about its symptoms/manifestations. Also, I want to add that I am still not totally used to the world being more mysterious and "without me". In a sense, I feel this existential awkwardness. So until my newfound consciousness normalizes, I will withhold from psychedelics.

Well... A part of me had died, there is less of me and more of the void. I feel my ability to see through the bullshit of negative and fearful thoughts has increased. Also, I am more aware of how layered my emotions are. For example: on the surface, I might feel all kinds of angsty and negative sensations but on a deeper level I feel very confident, lionhearted, and still. I am becoming more grounded in that second layer, It really feels like I am connecting with the divine masculine. It is also easier for me to invoke self-love when experiencing negative thoughts, beating myself up, or feeling down. To sum it up: the world is more mysterious and "without me".

Sounds like you are in the zone. All of your bridges are burned, your only option is to surrender your fear of the progress and to self-love. Try to see how irrational and unfounded your fears are, pure delusion.

Good words, I agree.

That metaphor is going right over my head. I am as musically tuned as a tone-deaf rooster (;

Solution: don't overuse psychedelics, set your limits with both the dosages and frequency of the trips. Responsibility with psychedelics requires patience, wisdom, and listing to your intuition. The more I read posts on this forum the more I realize that responsible use of psychedelics is a very rare thing. No wonder people are so overly wary of them.

Isn't it because you truly relaxed and surrendered when you let go of meditating and pursuing enlightenment. Spirituality can definitely work in counter-intuitive ways like this. Though if you never feel the call for spirituality again you must expect to stagnate. Are you fine with that?

burnout with tripping? Nobody is forcing psychedelics onto you. If you come all battered from a trip, it’s obvious you need to take a break and practice some self love, integration and surrender. (This is also true for when you come out of a trip just fine.) doing trips on a daily basis sounds like a very stupid idea if you care about integration and not putting your whole life off-balence. I am talking about tripping in a responsible way. I will argue that this method is the most energy efficient spiritual path, and most suitable for modern humans. (Not for all people off course, individual characteristics are always at play. )