Vrubel

@Leo Gura To be honest right after the attack I was still surprised Israel was warning civilians. If I am not mistaken more than 50% of Gazans are children and a way smaller proportion dies in the airstrikes so this should tell you something about Israel not targeting them. According to the concept of "collateral" The more valuable the target the more acceptable the collateral and Hamas made itself an incredibly valuable target. You sound very weak and afraid of terrorists, so eager to throw Israel under the bus. Completely playing into the hands of the most vile terrorists who have zero regard for anything. You also completely miss the moderating factor the US has on Israel.

@Leo Gura They should drop bouquets of flowers, that will teach them. What would anyone honestly expect after such an attack? Can you imagine if it was not Israel (that is heavily kept in check by the US), but a country like Russia, Turkey, China, or even the US being attacked the way Israel was attacked?

@Yousif I was born in a mixed Arab town in Israel called Ramla and often visit there, we live peacefully and most are decent people though the crime rate is very high (mostly blood feuds amongst themselves). When I think of the Arabs there I think of them as neighbors and admire their architecture and history and I am sensitive to any inequalities or unfairness coming from the Jewish side. But you lose your right to call yourself human when you support or excuse Hamas like most masses in Arab countries unfortunately do.

@Nabd Dude, you're Syrian. People massacred each other there with no Jew insight. Spare me your outrage, where is the mass outrage when it comes to Uighurs? You've been fed lies and propaganda since childhood because Israel is a convenient scapegoat for Arab failures. Yes, many Arabs are decent people but some others don't even deserve to be called human.

I need to go to bed and don't have time anymore so... Copy Paste* Even if they didn't turn Gaza into a Singapore they still could have had meaningful, decent, loving lives with their families and healthy Islam, maybe even a high-paying job in Israel. Any piece of land ruled by Hamas must be sealed off, Egypt understands this too. Israel provided Gaza with everything from food to energy. They definitely could have chosen a better life. Sorry, but your victim card expires after rape and torture. Israel will do what it has to, to ensure this never happens again. In the meanwhile Gazan civilians have to suffer along. Like what did they expect? this is not rocket science or some intricate poetic justice. They choose this in the most literal sense. Why? because they are as dumb as a cork. Israel is doing its best to minimize civilian causalities for PR, diplomatic and practical reasons if not humanitarian. But yeah isn't it plainly obvious that Gaza brought this war onto themselves?

Oke, It's getting ridiculous and unintelligent. Most Israelis absolutely resent the likes of Ben Gvir and have been consistently and massively protesting the government for the past year. copy paste* -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage.

@zazen Oke, please read my above points. They cover this issue, otherwise, I will just keep on repeating myself. @Breakingthewall @Happy Lizard What did you expect war would be? Go up to a big black club bouncer and rape his daughter in front of him, let see how he reacts. Having said that, for Israel, civilians are not the target but they will certainly die and suffer along Hamas as is the nature of war with such an enemy.

@Breakingthewall Oke, but I think I already made my points -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage.

@Raze Yes, those people are dying because of Hamas.

@Raze You're just exaggerating and not seeing the situation for what it is, If Israel wanted they could have already decimated the Palestinian population. Provoking neigbors? Notice how Israel not touching any neighbors that do not have terrorist organizations operating in it.

Oh please... nobody was keeping them hungry. Even if they didn't turn Gaza into a Singapore they still could have had meaningful, decent, loving lives with their families and healthy Islam, maybe even a high-paying job in Israel. Any piece of land ruled by Hamas must be sealed off, Egypt understands this too. Israel provided Gaza with everything from food to energy. They definitely could have chosen a better life. Sorry, but your victim card expires after rape and torture. Israel will do what it has to, to ensure this never happens again. In the meanwhile Gazan civilians have to suffer along. Like what did they expect? this is not rocket science or some intricate poetic justice. They choose this in the most literal sense. Why? because they are as dumb as a cork. Israel is doing its best to minimize civilian causalities for PR, diplomatic and practical reasons if not humanitarian. But yeah isn't it plainly obvious that Gaza brought this war onto themselves?

It's not a rosy picture at all, I said "normal" life. Palestinians are just pretty lowbrow people who have not accomplished anything concrete despite being the world's "darling oppressed people". Where are the separate UN organizations or mass protests for Uighurs or Rohingya? They are being oppressed 1000* times worse than Palestinians. Incidently they are also Muslim. There are definitely intelligent and wise Arabs but the masses are pretty lowbrow not concerning themselves with matters of morality, honesty or intelligence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk0rA4eW_4g&t=962s This YouTube channel shows 4k walks through Gaza (before this war). I think many will be surprised at how normal it is. It actually has a nice Arabic vibe and great sand beaches. Gaza could have been a great tourist destination and some kind of special business zone like Singapore and Hong Kong. But instead, they chose Hamas. Palestinians gotta be some of the world's dumbest and most dysfunctional people.

@Leo Gura How should Israeli society deal with and overcome such trauma? How does one "accept" or "move passed" all those unspeakable sadistic things?

@Happy Lizard The Palestinians are in a unique position where their pain and sorrow are incredibly well documented and in a constant spotlight. People all over the Middle East as well as the West (stage green) and the Third World are sympathetic towards the Palestinians. There are whole separate UN organizations to deal with Palestinians. No one else gets this kind of treatment. I don't see the same attention given to Yazidis, Uighurs, Tibetans, Yemenites, Syrians or Rohingyas. The Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have decent lives. Relative to the region Palestinians have a high-quality life, Ironically because of their proximity to Israel where they can get world-class wages to take back to their families. I saw more poverty and decay in Jordan than I did on the West Bank. Look at even street view of Gaza, it was a normal city. (of course now Gaza is getting destroyed but even if you look at the most recent rounds of fighting before this war, the damage was very limited and the causalities were usually mostly the terrorist leaders). My point is that Palestinians definitely do have substantial power in terms of influence and they still choose their morally deprived and toxic ways over healthy social justice organizing and dignified peaceful struggle. Yes, Palestinians have power and the ability to choose!

No, let's rape young women and burn babies and be all surprised and victimized when they strike back.

That's a convenient shrug of responsibility. The truth is that Palestinians live relatively comfortable lives relative to the region and the world. Media likes to exaggerate the day-to-day suffering. I have been to Bethelem and East Jerusalem, and whilst I realize these are the wealthier Palestinian places. It still has to be said that living there is materially 100* better than many of the other places I have seen in the world like Jordan, India and even South America. Palestinians could have easily coasted on their moral high ground and gotten something achieved but that's not the path they chose.

@Danioover9000 Again massive intelligence blunder, I don't know if they properly received that warning.

@Danioover9000 Again it was still substantially deep into Israel, Kilometres away from the fence. Israel is small. Nobody expected such an attack possible. Israel underwent a stunningly painful military and intelligence blunder.

A big part of the "oppression" is simply security checks, Palestinians find those humiliating but they are necessary to curb terrorism. But it is a problem for sure. Those communities near the border were Zionist but mostly very liberal and non-religious. Ironically amongst the killed and captured are a good amount of peace activists. Viewing Zionism as a purely stage-blue form of nationalism is not exactly fair. The concept of Zionism and its history is actually way more nuanced than people realize. (Zionism deserves a lot of admiration for saving Jewish people who would otherwise be EXTREMELY vulnerable in places like Iraq, Yemen and Algeria, also early Israelis could never know that Germany would transform into a highly humane peace-loving country). Israel is a small country without many open spaces in the center, the festival was still substantially deep into Israel. Further, I am not going to apologize for Israel because they build a high-quality society. Also, Arabs profit from that. A lot of Arabs are pacified precisely because they have a decent life in Israel with economic prospects they would never have in Arab countries. Also before the war 10,000's of Gazans worked in Israel and lived like "kings" in Gaza taking care of their massive extended families.

You know nothing about the Israeli mentality Israel was used to having a hostage here or there and they usually exerted great effort and cost to get them back regardless of dead or alive. A dead Israeli was still worth at least 100 terrorists. But what is happening now is a whole new level of trauma that will ask of Israelis to readjust their paradigm on this whole matter. After this attack, a bus bombing seems like a playground wound. Israelis put a lot of value on life, this has to do with trauma, the fact that they're a small nation but also their quality of life is great and the young people are often very talented with a lot of potential.

No one can seriously believe that, the hostages are their greatest assets. Hamas is also not exactly known for its principles of human decency and commitment to honesty.

So how do you crush Hamas without invading? How do you even attempt to rescue hostages without invading?

@Leo Gura It's clear Hamas is running circles around the IDF. They don't give a shit about anything and the world is jumping onto Israel. The hospital strike is a great victory for Hamas, without knowing the circumstances or the full story the world is rushing in to condemn Israel. It's definitely possible for Hamas to have its HQ underneath the hospital. The dead are already dead but those hostages are an incredibly traumatic open wound. For some context, Israel used to release scores of terrorists just in return for some dead bodies of IDF soldiers. That was the Israeli mentality but now this whole value system is shaken. Israelis will have to cope with this great loss and powerlessness. They no longer can view themselves as some small precious nation, but also as a nation that knows how to take a sacrifice.

Why not destroy your country?