Vrubel

Obviously not. Every human is an animal. Humans are animals. You are an animal. The world is governed by animals. International law is not a measure of objectivity. Following international law is easy If you fight in an open field with a respectable enemy.

@Karmadhi@zazen To be clear I don't want genecoide. I am offering you a nice perspective to contemplate on this personal development forum.

@Karmadhi Genocide on Gaza is within the realm of justice, the only reason they are not getting wiped out is because of the grace and mercy of the Israelis.

Hamas not giving a fuck makes them strong and allows them to run circles around the IDF. Caring is a weakness and handicap in this war. There are many things Israel can do but does not because it has accountability. But going soft is also not an option for Israel. Israel's "fuel" is not as much "international support" but rather "international tacit condoning". After 3 weeks of fighting, I can see Israel still has a lot of fuel. Obviously, Israel doesn't care about random people protesting or even (Muslim) leaders making all kinds of statements, offering lip service to their people. I have not seen any concrete diplomatic steps by any country against Israel. They just don't want to break with Israel like for example, the West did with Russia. Some countries are like a canary in the coal mine. Like Turkey, even though Erdogan said "Israel is terrorist, Hamas is not", he did this at a rally for his voting base, not as a concrete diplomatic action. It was Israel who then retrieved its diplomats from Turkey but it's not yet a total break. Even from the (leaders of the) Arab world (outside the Iran axis), there is a tacit condoning of Israel's actions. The only support that matters for Israel is US support, for the rest it can do with this tacit condoning.

@Leo Gura The whole strategy of Hamas is to make Israel kill as many civilians as possible. Because that is how Israel gets pressured and loses out on international support. I don't think they have any qualms about placing their nerve centers under hospitals, it's perfectly in line with their psychology and total disregard for anything. For them, it's strategically brilliant even straightforward and logical to put important command centers under hospitals. In reality, I think this war will be long and harsh. This war also has an existential dimension because no country can or even deserves to exist if they can't take away such a threat. Netanyahu has also a personal interest in keeping this war going as long as possible. He will definitely be dethroned after. This war won't solve anything fundamental but it will change the situation which might be good enough. Hopefully, some sensible and responsible people will replace him. And at least try to engage with the Palestinian leadership that is not totally batshit crazy. But again, it's very tricky because Israel's center, where metropolitan Tel Aviv lies is just a few miles away from the West Bank border so can you imagine a similar attack as we saw but then breaking into the very heart of Israel?

@Nabd Even with terror attacks Jews are safer and all around better off in Israel than in other Middle Eastern countries. This is obvious in any scenario. The important thing is that Jews have the ability to defend themselves. The descendants of the original European Zionist settlers tend to be secular, liberal and idealistic (like those who lived in the attacked Kibuttz villages) but they are the minority and increasingly so. Israel is further drifting away from the West -or- integrating into the region by becoming more religious and conservative. The simple reason is because religious people have a shit-ton of kids.

10.000 IDF causalities are not acceptable. Israel is currently calculating, planning and testing the waters. It's now up to the IDF to show its worth and to hit Hamas maximally while having minimal casualties. This war might take years and might expand to Lebanon. Maybe Hamas can survive by making hostage deals. Israel will definitely try to take some of the tunnels and see how it goes and adapt its strategy.

The Israeli public will never allow for such casualty rates. Israelis are the opposite of Russians in how much they care about their soldiers. Though of course, some sacrifice is necessary. The Israeli army is already testing the waters by doing limited invasions at night. As I understand the Israelis are being advised to keep it to limited operations. I have no idea how they are going to clear the tunnels, maybe with robotics, gasmasks and some special sedating gas that makes both the hostages and guards go unconscious, I really don't know if there is such a thing. The IDF must better live up to its reputation and show some fighting creativity or some new secret technology.

Everybody can do their outcry, but as long as Hamas is holding women and children the Israeli army will rage on. This is not some kind of unprovoked naked aggression. Israel owes nothing to Gaza.

@lina Palestinians can have decent loving lives even under occupation but Israelis cannot live next to Hamas. Both are cruel but the cruelty of Hamas is absolute. On a more analytical note: Israel is mostly only sensitive to American pressure so this war will prolong until the Americans decide to put serious pressure on Israel to stop. You better believe that Israel is calculating this in their attacks to put off that eventual pressure point for as long as possible.

@lina The world should give Israel the room to fight Hamas however it sees fit. In the meantime, Gaza civilians will suffer. They should have known that when they attacked. You can't attack anybody in the world like that and expect a weak ass response, though I still see how Israel is calculating and holding back.

@Leo Gura I see myself as a relatively conscious guy, nothing special but still, I have done a good amount of psychedelics, am open-minded, don't have extreme political views, I was very critical of the current Israeli government. I am Jewish but I don't take it too seriously, definitely not religious, I am also Russian. But the thing that makes this attack so evil because it shows that there are hellish fates a million times worse than death (I don't know If you have seen the notes of that closed meeting for journalists on Hamas atrocities). I am not proud of it. But I lost a good portion of my innocence and I have to accept now that I also have an extremely cruel and genocidal side. For me, it's starkly clear how Israel is not targeting civilians and limiting casualties but I understand that for an innocent westerner that is hard to see.

@Leo Gura To be honest right after the attack I was still surprised Israel was warning civilians. If I am not mistaken more than 50% of Gazans are children and a way smaller proportion dies in the airstrikes so this should tell you something about Israel not targeting them. According to the concept of "collateral" The more valuable the target the more acceptable the collateral and Hamas made itself an incredibly valuable target. You sound very weak and afraid of terrorists, so eager to throw Israel under the bus. Completely playing into the hands of the most vile terrorists who have zero regard for anything. You also completely miss the moderating factor the US has on Israel.

@Leo Gura They should drop bouquets of flowers, that will teach them. What would anyone honestly expect after such an attack? Can you imagine if it was not Israel (that is heavily kept in check by the US), but a country like Russia, Turkey, China, or even the US being attacked the way Israel was attacked?

@Yousif I was born in a mixed Arab town in Israel called Ramla and often visit there, we live peacefully and most are decent people though the crime rate is very high (mostly blood feuds amongst themselves). When I think of the Arabs there I think of them as neighbors and admire their architecture and history and I am sensitive to any inequalities or unfairness coming from the Jewish side. But you lose your right to call yourself human when you support or excuse Hamas like most masses in Arab countries unfortunately do.

@Nabd Dude, you're Syrian. People massacred each other there with no Jew insight. Spare me your outrage, where is the mass outrage when it comes to Uighurs? You've been fed lies and propaganda since childhood because Israel is a convenient scapegoat for Arab failures. Yes, many Arabs are decent people but some others don't even deserve to be called human.

I need to go to bed and don't have time anymore so... Copy Paste* Even if they didn't turn Gaza into a Singapore they still could have had meaningful, decent, loving lives with their families and healthy Islam, maybe even a high-paying job in Israel. Any piece of land ruled by Hamas must be sealed off, Egypt understands this too. Israel provided Gaza with everything from food to energy. They definitely could have chosen a better life. Sorry, but your victim card expires after rape and torture. Israel will do what it has to, to ensure this never happens again. In the meanwhile Gazan civilians have to suffer along. Like what did they expect? this is not rocket science or some intricate poetic justice. They choose this in the most literal sense. Why? because they are as dumb as a cork. Israel is doing its best to minimize civilian causalities for PR, diplomatic and practical reasons if not humanitarian. But yeah isn't it plainly obvious that Gaza brought this war onto themselves?

Oke, It's getting ridiculous and unintelligent. Most Israelis absolutely resent the likes of Ben Gvir and have been consistently and massively protesting the government for the past year. copy paste* -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage.

@zazen Oke, please read my above points. They cover this issue, otherwise, I will just keep on repeating myself. @Breakingthewall @Happy Lizard What did you expect war would be? Go up to a big black club bouncer and rape his daughter in front of him, let see how he reacts. Having said that, for Israel, civilians are not the target but they will certainly die and suffer along Hamas as is the nature of war with such an enemy.

@Breakingthewall Oke, but I think I already made my points -Palestinians are not absolutely oppressed and have free will, substantial power, and exceptional world sympathy. -Israel bears responsibility to its own people and the conflict, even when it fails it is still responsible and carries the heavy burden of either the massive intelligence blunder or the crumbling of world support because of bad policies and leadership. -The Palestinians don't take responsibility for shit. Hamas is literally throwing its own people under the bus. Before the war half of Israel was protesting against the right-wing government but nobody in the Arab world is holding Hamas or the Palestinians responsible, this tells you everything about their integrity and commitment to morality in this highly selective outrage.

@Raze Yes, those people are dying because of Hamas.

@Raze You're just exaggerating and not seeing the situation for what it is, If Israel wanted they could have already decimated the Palestinian population. Provoking neigbors? Notice how Israel not touching any neighbors that do not have terrorist organizations operating in it.

Oh please... nobody was keeping them hungry. Even if they didn't turn Gaza into a Singapore they still could have had meaningful, decent, loving lives with their families and healthy Islam, maybe even a high-paying job in Israel. Any piece of land ruled by Hamas must be sealed off, Egypt understands this too. Israel provided Gaza with everything from food to energy. They definitely could have chosen a better life. Sorry, but your victim card expires after rape and torture. Israel will do what it has to, to ensure this never happens again. In the meanwhile Gazan civilians have to suffer along. Like what did they expect? this is not rocket science or some intricate poetic justice. They choose this in the most literal sense. Why? because they are as dumb as a cork. Israel is doing its best to minimize civilian causalities for PR, diplomatic and practical reasons if not humanitarian. But yeah isn't it plainly obvious that Gaza brought this war onto themselves?

It's not a rosy picture at all, I said "normal" life. Palestinians are just pretty lowbrow people who have not accomplished anything concrete despite being the world's "darling oppressed people". Where are the separate UN organizations or mass protests for Uighurs or Rohingya? They are being oppressed 1000* times worse than Palestinians. Incidently they are also Muslim. There are definitely intelligent and wise Arabs but the masses are pretty lowbrow not concerning themselves with matters of morality, honesty or intelligence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk0rA4eW_4g&t=962s This YouTube channel shows 4k walks through Gaza (before this war). I think many will be surprised at how normal it is. It actually has a nice Arabic vibe and great sand beaches. Gaza could have been a great tourist destination and some kind of special business zone like Singapore and Hong Kong. But instead, they chose Hamas. Palestinians gotta be some of the world's dumbest and most dysfunctional people.