Tim R

Not easy to accept that centuries of science and metaphysics were wrong lol?? Materialism and scientism seem very very convincing tho (and are very powerful), gotta give the devil his due.

@JJfromSwitzerland Yup that can happen, it's normal and good. That's the power of meditation Your true nature is peaceful and happy, but veiled by the constantly chattering, doubtful, anxious, attached and dissatisfied ego-mind. So when the mind calms down, your true nature reveals itself to you. It might, but not for long. The more you cling to it, the less you have it. Your true nature isn't clingy, so to desire this state of consciousness will only get in the way of it actually happening. So here's what not to do: meditating in hope of attaining or regaining this state of consciousness. Keep meditating, but don't expect this state to last longer or to come back once it's gone. If you're going to meditate, meditate for meditation's sake.

Lol Terence was stoned 24/7, he always used cannabis to think. Which is really where you can use cannabis as a teacher. Cannabis aids implicit understanding.

@freejoy No, you can't. Try and see how it goes

Then what are you doing here?

@freejoy You can't love "on command", i.e. if it doesn't come naturally/authentically. "thou shalt love thy neighbor". Ha! Forget it If you don't love someone or something, that's fine. Don't be phony and try to love them. Rather be selfish and admit it, than fake loving and acting all saintly and Jesus-like. What you can try however, is forgiving someone. Which is btw not the same as letting them treat you like sh*t and brushing it off.

@Gesundheit Then there are no more values left I guess. At least no more values in our sense of the word. Our values are "valuable" to us because we're attached to them. So you can still go do your things, but you're not in the least attached to anything at that point.

@Gili Trawangan @Flim @allislove @Jonty @nistake Glad to see that you like it, thanks

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

@Gesundheit Yeah but that doesn't nullify the notion of having a "highest value". It might make the value "worthless", but only from an absolute perspective. Yes, it's all striving and yes, when you've reached the highest point you can only go down from there. Ultimately, every value will lead towards the value/goal of self-realization and the ending of suffering, the escape from Samsara, to use Buddhist terms. However the attempt of of escaping Samsara is still part of Samsara because one thinks that this will somehow make life easier/better. One is still in the rat race. And everything is falling apart, changing, dying, escaping, fleeting. We want security. The highest goal/value is the ending of all suffering. If you got something better, hit me up

@Gesundheit What do you mean?

@Endangered-EGO That's also a good one. I think most people experience the present moment as a very short memory-fraction that lasts for about 0.1 - 0.3 seconds or something like that. It's funny when you point out how arbitrary this is... "how long do you think is the present moment? 5 seconds?" "No! that's way too long!" "Okay, 1 second?" "hmm, no, that's still too long.." "what about 5 femtoseconds?" "what" ??

@At awe Yes, the idea of a spectrum is also very useful to realize the unreality of boundaries/differences. Same goes for sound, either fading into another note or fading out into silence. And although most people will admit that there isn't really any boundary between white and grey, they would (maybe not on this forum) still argue that black is "obviously" not the same as white and that there's a clear and distinct difference/boundary.

I think humor isn't really something that you can learn from a book. You can learn about humor, but a book won't teach you the quality of humor itself. Humor must come naturally.

That's the point haha it's just a nice little visualization to dissolve the idea of there being a boundary which one could see

Yes, that's definitely the largest part of it. True, but unlike Green they understand it and don't condemn it.

Lol nowhere. Space can't be anywhere. Just like time can't be any-when. @Vibroverse You're not in space, "space" is in you, or more precisely; what you call "space" is actually you. When you look at a tree, you think "i am here and over there is the tree, and we both are in space." But that's simply not true. You are not looking at a tree within space, what you call "tree" and "space" are both you and you are "the looking" itself. And so there's nobody who's looking at anything anywhere, only awareness, happening nowhere and to nobody. How much space is there between yourself and yourself?

@Gesundheit You can watch Leo's videos, read the Spiral Dynamics book, make research on the internet, etc. Green's values don't resonate at all with religion. That should be pretty obvious. Imagine the archetypal stage green person meeting an archetypal religious person. You think they'd get along very well? I doubt it... And the extent to which green is a backlash against science: you know for example that funny thing Ben Shapiro said "facts don't care about your feelings"? Well what do you think that is? It's of course blue's/orange's aversive reaction against green. It's not that green has any aversion against science per se, it's only that green tries to overcome the cold, hard, rationalistic and "factual" worldview of scientism (more appropriate and inclusive word than science in this case) that, taken to an extreme, produces suffering and other problems. And so, green tends to have some values that might often be considered as "unscientific" and/or "too subjective" to be incorporated in science, that's no accident.

Stage Green is a Backlash against religion and to some extent also against science, so it's not nearly holistic enough to merge science with religion, that starts at stage Yellow, at least on a level of theoretical understanding. @Focus Shift Since religion sprung from mysticism, stage Turquoise is your best bet. Because stage Turquoise actually understands what people like Jesus or Lao Tsu were talking about. And there you can really combine science with mysticism. I say mysticism and not religion because religion is mostly dogma, so we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. And by doing that with religion, we're left with mysticism. Combining science with religion gets you mostly into trouble.

@Gesundheit What exactly are you even disputing? Is this actually about words to you? @Gesundheit @Gesundheit

@Gesundheit You know, the funny thing is, when you see it, you don't go like "hmm ok, how to label this insight? Oh, I know, let's just call it Love because...because.. idk, it sounds nice". Nope. You immediately go "holy crap, it's Love!" Like when you first recognize that the world is fundamentally One, you don't label it as "One" because it's a nice word game. It's self-explanatory. And so the first exclamation is "holy crap it's One!" It is what it is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Gesundheit All notions are dualistic. But since you asked for a new explanation, that's all I can give to you. Beyond all these words there's Love. I'm not talking about this dualistic form of acceptance/love of any "you" or "me". When I said "forget the self", I meant that. The only one who's hung up on dualisitc notions is you, since you think there's an explanation that could reveal the actual secret. I can only point towards the nondualistic nature of what I'm talking about, I can never, never ever show it with words. To explain nonduality with words is a completely meaningless issue and therefore impossible. Stop thinking that there's somebody who "does" the accepting or that there's somehow the possibility of there being a separate self who can "reject" anything. It's not like that at all. It simply turns out that "acceptance" is the best word I have. Of course I'm going in circles, what did you expect?? That's the whole problem about trying to explain something like that and I'm very aware of it. Love is indiscriminate! That's the whole point! This existential non-discrimination is Love! Let go of the notion that Love is an emotion, it's more than that. It's much, much, much more existentially fundamental than having extreme affection for something/-one (love) or accepting / rejecting something. If you see it for yourself, it becomes glaringly obvious. Too obvious. And then you'll be in the same situation as me, trying to use a broom to sweep the darkness out of a room. Idk, maybe someone else here is better with words than me and wants to give it another shot.

Because Yes to everything! @docs20 UNO reverse card: why not?

@Gesundheit Acceptance is not something that existence does. Existence is unconditional acceptance because it is selfless(ness), and selflessness is unconditional, absolute Acceptance. No boundaries, no separation aka rejection, it's in-finite. That's what infinity is, it literally is 100% selfless Acceptance/ Love and there is nothing that is being loved and nobody who does the loving/accepting, because everything is infinite Love. It's Acceptance, not acceptance. There is literally nothing but acceptance, forget the self. Ask yourself, what is there beyond the self? What is there without boundaries? imagine there were no boundaries in the universe, what do you get then? You get ultimate, absolute non-rejection aka Acceptance aka Love aka Infinity. Nothing left outside, nothing rejected, everything included and accepted, without any self!! Goddammit!! f*ck words haha

@Gesundheit Of course you are existence, there's nothing but absolute Love and you are that. No external God, no selflessness apart from you, only Maya suggesting that there's something outside you Or how do you mean it? Any specific sentence in my explanation that's bothering you?