Happy Lizard

Current day Arabs (possibly 25s and younger) are all for secularism some atheists or agnostics. Lost of 35s and younger are in the closet seculars — and that’s majority speaking. You will find people and lifestyles that astonish you in the middle east. I mean you don’t have to take my word, look -deeply not superficially- at Kuwait, Jordan,Lebanon Emirates and Egypt. If you are digging in the wrong places you will only find what you presume is already the case. Television, Internet, social media and the more and more digitized the world is and the more and more information are accessible — add to that just how many people in the middle east are learning english now, and you will see a jump into secularism powered by all this technology in no time. This is something Ken Wilber talks about: How once a technology is found/designed/made be a higher level in the spiral it’s available to all levels. Most people in Arab countries Finnish college and get a degree, colleges are government subsidized, even no college grads have technical jobs and are way smarter people than the people you’ve got in the US. It’s actually astonishing to the world how stupid some Americans are in comparison to the norm in most countries.

@Breakingthewall well this is a strong bias against Islam and muslim/arabs in general, and not saying that as an attack on you. Just saying what you are pointing out lacks some imagination for a possibility that you cannot see because it has not yet happened. For example before airplanes where invented the idea of them sounded ludicrous, yet human imagination prevailed as we all can see. Islam and the Arab fell significantly backward in it’s spiral development after the Mongols attack. We have to be open minded and Imagine what if the same thing would have happened to the Renaissance period Western world with the Mongols? How destabilizing that would have been. It would have probably sent the Western world a level or two back in the spiral. It’s just a matter of imagination, Islam was knocking on the door of orange but we just can’t imagine that with the current day mental pictures that come to mind when you think “islam”. How will that change ? Well it will change when economical factors change, I’ve had this conversation before, even with Leo but there seems to be a very strong Idea that Muslims/Arabs can not develop to beyond blue. here’s one example of how Egypt is has developed on the Spiral: https://youtu.be/-Xc1b1L_Qhc?feature=shared Of course this can never be convincing unless you are willing to mingle with a good number of Egyptians, but you can just count it as one account of what is possible in theory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

I though this was a very good conversation. Leaving aside for bit how we judge who is right and who is wrong. And addressing how propaganda is playing on our feelings and how we look at this situation. https://youtu.be/VxDlUYyXkWU?feature=shared He doesn’t speak too much about what type of propaganda, just highlighting how it might be playing on our perception.

*Not defending any side here* would Israel be more secure if Gaza was occupied or kept under control? I feel like thats a good idea in theory, I don’t really understand the situation well enough to say this should be done or not in theory, but I can only imagine that that was not a good mesure for the Israeli government to not keep Gaza under-check, while at the same time allowing some development to happen. why was Gaza left on it’s own and then blockade? It might have been a historical mistake, but it seems like the approch is -this is what it’s seeming to me at least -“we either watch you, keep you under control, which will means a better life and an opportunity for growth/breath” or “we leave you on your own, show as what you’ve got, but then cut you form the outside world” naturally a person like environment is going to be … well, a prison-like-environment, where red militia will thrive. This explains to me why the west bank seems to be a doing bit better.

Best take. Acknowledging both sides. Just great.

I’m learning so much, This is great, I’m glad I gave this thread another chance. you all are doing great with some of these posts I’ve read here. Very informative.

Should I smoke DMT if I have a body injury and/or can not relax my body? I heard Leo saying that your body should be completely relaxed when tripping, that is one of the reasons why I have not done psychedelic these past years, I took acid one time and it was not like as therapeutic/nice as when I was ok. I think I’ll skip it for the time being.

if the Israeli army can effectively eliminate Hamas completely form that resign that will be good. But thats a big if loaded with half dozen of bad scenarios. Hostages being held, people, families, children, street wars, explosives. a god damn mess. What will Gaza be after this? Are people supposed to be eating popcorn while all this happens? It might be long disaster of a war. How can you hold all these moving parts? The public opinion, surprising factors. It’s not going to be good or easy.

@Nivsch wouldn’t you agree that it’s not sane? wouldn’t you agree this is coming form blind revenge? Nothing good could come out of this believe me. It’s not that I don’t see what you are trying to say. But this just not going to be good for any side. More hatred will be left. I do understand that I’m trying to ask Israel too much of an ask. it’s just insane to me to defend this.

These are the exact words one Hamas fighter used in one vice interview. this should not continue, believe me, nothing good could come out of this, I don’t care if you are for it or not, truly, but this is just not going to be good for both sides.

“They don’t target civilians directly” I don’t know what logic anybody on the case for Israel bombing Gaza is hiding behind saying this with a straight face. This is insanity. I’ve never seen anything like this.

@Vrubel can I ask tou where do you live? This will make a huge difference on the way you view Gaza, depending on the place you are used to live in. For example France cities has some of the best bakeries, social gathering, world class child-care, but Americans wouldn’t want to live in France, they would rather live in the US than not have their central heating/cooling and couldn’t simply live without their trucks. tell an American they have to buy a gas cylinder and bring it up the stairs to then hook it up to their oven in order to cook and they’ll lose their minds — my point : it’s relative what you think is livable city, Gaza to the western world is dysfunctional. also add to that Israeli would never allow tourism and all kind of imports and businesses to flourish, arabs flying in and out. That will freak them out security wise. If you’ve painted a group of people as dangerous you tend to see it this way forever, and then it comes and bites in your butt. Not bashing on your point, it’s stupid that Palestinians chose Hamas. But also this rosy picture you are painting is not completely feasible, and not all of it’s fault lie on Palestinians.

@Thought Art This is the brand: https://www.dynavap.com/products/the-b I should’ve called it dry herb vaporizer. You light up the tip with a lighter for a few seconds, it works as a vaporizer without the need for a battery.

Anyone knows if vape pens the kind where you can light up with a small torch lighter can be used to vaporize DMT substances ? Not an experienced user

I heard an advice to increase walking: park your car far form the entrance of the building. Which adds up over time.

@zazen this paints a different picture https://youtu.be/OagYlYna75Y?feature=shared what is interesting is that he says even if troops invaded — to finally eliminate Hamas form their roots, others will spring up. innocent people being killed left and right in the middle of all of this, but “you should get sense in your mind b/c war is ugly and civilians die”. Between that and annexing some of Gaza, what is this looking like? Routinely killing people every number of years out of “we don’t know WTF else to do about it” gets ugly over time.

And I can say “many Russian like Putin”, I’ve no idea, it’s sorta like that. But I love you man it’s aight.

@Lila9 I’m sorry for what your people have gone/are going through. I can see the pain in your post and I recognize that. If we don’t start doing this there is no hope for peace. My sincere condolences.

@Leo Gura for Hamas ? Is the million dollar distinction. No arab sympathises with Islamic Jihadist, even sympathize is giving it too much, given that Islamic brotherhood have been quite literally canceled in Egypt, and they are on the verge of extremism not extremist proper. Extremism have been poorly represented in all sort of media since the 90s, not to mention how much death been endured. I’m getting the sense that you think Arabs are some dummies who still don’t own a TV nor can distinguish for themselves. You can believe me, or You can believe bad faith actors, and merely interpret what you see with your eyes and not know for sure, your choice. if Hamas were all lined up in the desert and shot to death no one will give a shit, granted no bomb be dropped and no civilian be hurt or killed. Thats a big distinction!

Your take is completely outdated and is not true. I’m surprised you are actually saying that. like Arabs are actually happy that Jews have died. But hey, it’s not my job to change your mind; I’m worried about what people absorb/think of this when they hear You say that.

Who’s giving a shit? are your for real? I swear to you man, no arab gives a crap about Hamas or their case, or cares to defend them. those people protesting are protesting for Palestinians and their lives.

@Breakingthewall aha ok I see your point, I’m keeping this in my mind, thanks the turn around!

You think I’m not hurt for the Israeli people, you are wrong. I’m not going for a blaming game, and I’m trying not be inflammatory. My argument does not lead to let’s kill women and children. Nor do I support Hamas at the least bit.

How can we collectively work for a better conversation, rather than calling each others out? is the play/fight between our opinions really going to wake us up into seeing each-others/each of the two sides of people’s sorrows/pain ?