soos_mite_ah

Not sure if this would fall under yellow but I found the take to be pretty nuanced, especially considering people tend to separate all foods into little "good" and "bad" categories without a lot of scrutiny. This video looks into the models and the ways people experiment in the food sciences to reach the claims they have and the limitations pertaining to those methods.

I thought this video is interesting because not only does it touch on how one nutrient or component in a food doesn't tell the whole story rather you need to look at different compounds and how they work together instead, but it also talks about issues with modeling, using mice for experiments, the short comings of meta analysis, and why in nutritional sciences do some studies contradict one another. Going through this whole trial and error process with my PCOS and also looking at my own eating habits to find what is best for me is really giving me new appreciation for the complexity of a person's diet. The foods we eat can seem pretty mundane since we eat everyday and it isn't something that has that novelty factor that really drives our interest, but there is a lot that goes into it even if we don't recognize it in the rush of our every day lives.

Thought this was informative. I liked the whole thing of how you can't just analyze one nutrient or one component but you need to see how they all work together. The only thing I didn't really like was how at the end this guy started saying something along the lines of how people have health issues because of too many proteins and fats in their diets (it's a vegan channel) without talking about any of the nuances between different sources of proteins and fats which seemed a little ironic considering on what he said about fruit and carbs. He had me until the very end lol.

Understanding Weight Loss My initial understanding of weight loss was that if you cut out or reduce all carbs, all sugar, all fat, and all oils from your diet and go on a calorie deficit that you are bound to lose weight. However, as I'm learning more and more about food as a whole and many of the misconceptions that circulate around, I'm getting this impression that getting to a healthy weight is more complicated than this. From what I understand, if someone wants to lose weight in a healthy and sustainable way, that person needs to evaluate what kind of habits they have and find the reason to their weight gain or lack of weight loss instead of going on some type of one size fits all diet. For a lot of people who struggle with weight loss, an excess of carbs, sugar, fat, and oils from greasy foods and sugary snacks is the culprit. But for some people, that isn't the case, it's something different. For example, lets say someone (person x) is going around telling how they lost weight by only cutting out soda from their diet. This person was drinking a soda with lunch and dinner pretty much everyday. Lets say another person (person y) hears that advice and wants to implement it but they don't normally drink soda on a regular basis. Person y might only be drinking one soda every couple of weeks. For person y, the remedy of losing weight from simply cutting soda probably won't work for them because that isn't the thing that is causing their weight gain nor is it the unhealthy habit that is messing with their health. Person y might have a different habit they need to tackle or they might have a different issue causing their weight gain that requires a different forms of action. Telling person y that soda is the devil and needs to be avoided at all cost won't be sufficient in getting results because for person y, soda was never the problem. Not only can one size fits all diets or dieting tips be a waste of time because everyone has different bodies, habits, and situations, but it can also be dangerous for some. For instance, lets say you tell someone that they need to go into a large caloric deficit to lose weight. That can work for a lot of people but for those who have issues with a slowed metabolism because of a past of restrictive dieting, eating at even more of a deficit can wreck their metabolism even more. A lot of people who diet a lot or for a long time can suffer from metabolic adaptation where after a period of restrictive eating, the body goes into starvation mode and tries to function in a way where it can sustain itself with fewer calories, therefore slowing down the person's metabolism. That's why a lot of people gain back weight and then some more after they lose weight from restrictive dieting. Their metabolism slows down therefore when they go to eat like a normal person again, the body stores a ton of weight because it thought it was starving before. Gaining weight like this isn't a lack of will power or discipline, it is a part of a person's biological survival mechanism that helps them from not starving. Also a lot of people who finish a restrictive diet find that to maintain their body, they need to eat less than what they were eating before. Their metabolism gets slower and slower until eventually those people find themselves obsessing over calories and barely eating anything. In some cases, this can be a recipe for an eating disorder. If I were to tell anyone anything, I would recommend them to see weight loss or gain as a symptom rather than the actual issue. Instead the actual issue should be geared around lifestyle change, changing, habits, and treating whatever health issue is causing the weight gain. For me personally, I was eating pretty healthy before but it was still wrecking havoc on my body because I had undiagnosed PCOS. To treat my PCOS I had to cut out gluten and dairy which did help my symptoms and did help me lose some weight because the gluten and dairy were screwing with my hormones that was already being screwed by my PCOS. While I was eating healthy, I did have some whole grain bread and some yogurt in my diet. That isn't bad for most people, but for someone who is apparently not dealing with gluten and dairy well, it can be a problem. But to people who don't have hormonal issues or PCOS, cutting out gluten and dairy probably won't have the same effect or do anything. I've also read other people's story with PCOS and how they tried to go on restrictive diets to deal with the weight gain they had and it got worse because when someone has PCOS and they go on restrictive diets, the body interprets that as a stressor which then makes the hormones go out of wack even more therefore causing more weight gain. Yes, for someone consuming too many carbs, too many oils, too many x, y, or z, reducing intake of those things can be beneficial. But for someone who isn't consuming too many of those things, cutting them can be redundant and time wasting or detrimental. I tried to cut carbs before only to realize I wasn't having enough in the first place and cutting them more led to me getting a lot of headaches and nausea. I would also add that when you get recommended to do something and it isn't working for you, it can be discouraging. If you followed my journal you know that I have had issues with not getting enough calories and in general I don't eat unhealthy fats, I don't have that many carbs, I normally eat things low in sugar etc. But every time I go to my primary care physician, whenever she sees that I'm 150 lbs, her immediate answer is to stop eating so much and count calories. I remember once I told her that I do that and that whenever I go to a restaurant that I look for foods that are around 500 calories and even then I make sure to not finish my food. She replied with "oh, you're painting such a rosy picture, if that were the case you wouldn't be classified as overweight." (this was also before my PCOS diagnosis so I had no idea that my hormones were behind this) And I remember in that moment that I felt like I was being gaslighted. I felt like I was going crazy and I was trying to think of different ways of restricting food whether that meant skipping breakfast, eating one meal a day, doing a juice cleanse, etc. That isn't a healthy mindset towards food or weight loss. If anything, any of those things would probably aggravate my case more, feed into my neurosis, and leave me feeling hungry and deprived of nutrients that I need. Hell, for some people, cutting out foods isn't even the answer. One example I can think of is that when someone craves a lot of processed sugars, it's because they aren't getting enough protein, fats, or fiber from their diet. Because the energy they get from processed sugars in being used up quickly judging by how fast their blood sugar spikes up, they are left feeling hungry and tired sooner causing them to crave more sugar to get out of the sugar crash. By incorporating more protein, healthy fats, and fiber, that sugar spike can be slowed down for longer and more sustained energy. Often times I hear about people who feel that they are addicted to sugar and that they constantly crave it, but simply cutting sugar might not be the answer for some. Going cold turkey on something like sugar without addressing what is causing the cravings in the first place isn't sustainable in the long run and people are more likely to revert back to their old habits soon. Instead, it's important to address why you are craving a certain food and solve that issue so that instead of constantly having to control cravings, you won't even have to deal with the cravings in the first place. Why spend time and energy controlling cravings and beat yourself up for a supposed lack of discipline when you inevitably give in when you can eliminate the cravings and not have to deal with them again. Basically what I'm trying to say is that weight loss and creating a diet that works for you needs to be treated as a very individualized thing. What might for someone might not work for you. It's great to get ideas and some type of starting point, but ultimately, people need to listen to their bodies, blood work, doctors, mental health needs, and physical sensations and use that as a guide instead of using someone else's diet as an end all be all.

@7thLetter Yeah I'm starting to get the impression that pick up isn't so much of the problem rather it is red pill and the shades of red pill that can be found in even some good advice. There are many examples of this but here is one. I was looking at the pick up site that I linked and in one of the articles it said that in order to attract girls you need to be standoffish because then the girl will start doubting herself and start questioning "does he like me?" "did he enjoy himself on the date?" etc. And one way to do that is to text her randomly so one time you might reply to her after 3 hours and another time it might be after 5 min and that supposedly keeps her on her toes. There is some truth to that. As a guy (or girl) you need to have your own life meaning you have a job, some hobbies, a social circle, etc. so you don't get clingy over one person. Often times we get clingy because we have all of our eggs in one basket. That spells out desperation which isn't attractive at all, or at least attractive to healthy, quality people. A manipulator or low quality person would have a field day with someone who is clingy and feels the need to bend over backwards. If you have a life, you won't have to play hard to get, you will be hard to get. And you won't have to strategically plan out when you are going to be messaging someone, it's just going to be randomly by default (meaning you won't have to play mind games with yourself or others) if you actually genuinely have other things going on and you aren't hanging on your phone just waiting for her text. Also the whole woman doubting herself and that being a good thing isn't healthy. Sounds like an insecure woman tbh. A quality girl is going to like that you have your own life but she wouldn't be sitting here doubting herself because she also has her own life. If you are a quality guy, you won't need to have a clingy girl validating you because you will already be confident on your own. You won't feel the need to socially dominate a woman if you are already feel that you are dominant in general because you don't have anything you need to prove. Feeling the need to dominate and control is weak man energy at it's finest. Also this is a tangent but upon looking at all of this, I see another parallel. I feel like the female equivalent to red pill style pickup is hypergamy. The vast majority of women don't engage in that but the ones that do are typically very regressive when it comes to their notions of gender roles to the point where they can be very manipulative towards men and expect them to act in hypermasculine and toxic ways. In a way, red pill and hypergamy are responding to each other with the impression that the other comprises the vast majority of people. Meaning a woman who is into hypergamy will assume that all men are red pilled and are horny all the damn time and completely emotionally unavailable meaning you need to manipulate them to stay with you while a man who is into red pill pickup will assume that all women are superficial hypergamous manipulators that you have to manipulate to get them to like you. IMO if you feel the need to manipulate someone or "get them to like you" odds are that person never liked you in the first place. It also has to do with respect. If I respect someone I wouldn't want to manipulate them or have them like me when it isn't their authentic expression. More importantly, if I respect myself, I wouldn't want to manipulate someone to like me because I know my worth doesn't depend on other people's opinions. Plus I would want to be with someone who genuinely likes me, not someone who has to compromise their own desires to be with me and treats me like I'm some type of second option.

I would say these things are pretty on point. If you want to attract and keep a quality girl, you have to be a quality guy. But what is a quality guy. A quality guy is someone in my opinion has a lot of respect. He has respect for others by not being a manipulative asshole. He has respect for the woman he loves and abides by her boundaries. Most importantly, he has respect for himself. That means that he has boundaries and isn't a push over or a people pleaser. He has a life with a purposeful job, hobbies, and a social life meaning he won't be clinging onto a girl or getting codependent with her. He has respect for his surroundings and the way he dresses meaning he isn't a total slob and therefore can carry out basic household responsibilities and means of taking care of himself. (these things also apply to high quality women) You don't have to have loads of money and look like a model to have any of these things. There are plenty of guys who have money and good looks but they aren't quality guys because they aren't doing something they are passionate about and are just in for the money, or maybe they are cheating on their wife (those are to name a couple but I can probably think of a lot more). Being a quality guy has more to do with character than status. If you have all that I mentioned in the previous paragraph and a girl doesn't like you, it could be a personal preference/ type thing or it could be that she isn't a high value woman. I'm sure the type thing isn't what you are concerned about since you are already in a relationship with this woman. I wouldn't be worried about her making more than you. I would be worried about your insecurity and the pressure you feel to do better than her financially because you feel obligated to be the breadwinner. It would be one thing if you were incapable of financially supporting yourself and were leeching off of her, then I would tell you to get it together. But if you want to be confident, or I guess alpha, you need to respect yourself and have confidence in the fact that you have more to give than money and status. Instead, I would encourage you to celebrate her wins and be happy for her. If you try to compete with her, there is a chance that you will seem like you are insecure and that you need to one up her to feel good about yourself. It will look like you are threatened by her success and if she is a high quality woman, she wouldn't want a man who would be threatened by her, she would want a man who is her equal and he sees himself as her equal. But if you still want to work hard and do better, I would suggest coming at it from a place of inspiration in that she makes you want to be a better person instead of a place of competition. By coming from a place of inspiration, you are appreciating her success, you are also motivating yourself to be better and improve, but you aren't letting your ego be bruised in the process. In other words, forget about society's standards and if anything, deconstruct the traditional gender roles of how a man needs to be the sole provider.

1/21/2021 Food Diary Breakfast: Spinach and banana smoothie: Has spinach, banana, peanut butter, and unsweetened vanilla almond milk. This filled me up quite a bit to where I almost forgot about lunch Lunch: Vegetable soup: It's the same one from last night. I just had some left over. A bowl of cheerios with some almond milk: To get the iron and the carbs in. Snack: A small bag of sea salt and vinegar chips: I haven't had these in a while. I was out grocery shopping and I saw a small bag of chips and thought why not. Dinner: Miso Soup: Used this miso broth I found in the supermarket. I made sure to look at the ingredients and the ingredients were things that I could recognize so that's good (gonna be honest I'm too lazy to get the broth and type everything out in this journal). I also used some miso paste, added bok choy, seaweed, green onions, tofu, and mushrooms. This was my first time making and having miso soup and I can honestly say that I can see myself eating this more often. I would have done this sooner but my mom was freaking out about soy before and it was hard to get it past her lol. Kale Salad: Has kale, and avocado, an egg, bell peppers, tomatoes, green onion, olives, tahini, basil, and balsamic vinegar. Snack: A handful of blueberries: I wanted something sweet and I instantly thought of eating blueberries.

1/20/2021 Food Diary Breakfast: 2 slices of gluten free toast with peanut butter along with a hand full of black berries: I wasn't hungry but I forced myself to eat something anyway because I felt myself feeling emotionally down. I felt better after eating Lunch: Sauteed vegetables and grilled shrimp along with a gluten free tortilla: Had brussell sprouts, carrots, onions, shrimp, broccoli, red bell peppers, and ginger all cooked with olive oil Snack: 1 Banana Dinner: Vegetable soup: Made with vegetable broth, olive oil, a variety of spices, bok choy, broccoli, green onions, red bell peppers, celery, and carrots. Snack: 1 bowl of cereal (Cheerios) with unsweetened vanilla almond milk and a handful of blueberries: I felt a little hungry but my main reason for eating this was my feet were cold. I know that sounds really weird but let me explain. I googled why the rest of my body felt warm and comfortable yet my feet were super cold and thankfully google didn't tell me that I was dying or have cancer as it normally does whenever you type in a symptom of something probably harmless into it's search engine. Apparently, when the rest of your body feels warm but your feet feel cold, it can be a symptom of low iron. So I decided to try something out. I once read the label of the cereal lying around my house and it said that it has 70% of a person's recommended amount of iron plus a variety of other nutrients. And it worked. I was surprised but also not surprised. Not surprised because that meant that google was right, but surprised because I didn't think cereal could fix my cold feet. That's just a weird remedy in my mind I guess. Additional notes: Before breakfast, I had an appointment with my psychiatrist in regards to some medication I am on and I left that appointment really disappointed. I didn't have this medicine for about a month because I had issues with getting an appointment in order to renew my prescription but I felt fine. As a result, I was hoping to get a lower dose and I was told that I have to take this amount for a year and it's going to take time to wean off of it. It hurt because I have been putting in so much effort with getting better emotionally so I won't have to need this medication. I am someone who places her self esteem on her ability to function and her ability to be mentally stable. I know that isn't the healthiest thing, but considering this, it makes sense why that would hurt. I have nothing against medication for mental health but in a way I feel ashamed for taking them. I came back and I just didn't want to eat breakfast because I was upset but I made myself eat anyway because I know that eating can help me stabilize my mood and even though my emotions might still be down, I wouldn't have to feel it in the full intensity because I don't have this biological hunger making my mood worse. Also with the Cheerios, I found out that this cereal has a lot of the things I mentioned being deficient in. It has a good amount of carbs, calcium, and iron so that about covers everything except the protein. It is also gluten free so that's good. Eating this can also increase my amount of calories as well (by a reasonable amount- 1 bowl has 150 calories). This might sound weird but I'm thinking of eating it like I would a vitamin/supplement on a daily basis so that I can plug in the stuff that is usually lacking in my diet. I want to stay away from supplements and try to get as much nutrition I can get with my food and because often times supplements have more of a nutrient that is needed in a daily value. I remember when I was taking iron supplements, each pill had 350% of my recommended daily amount of iron. This is tmi but it also really messed with my bowl movements and that side effect simply did not go away. I decided to get off the iron supplements because I felt that it was doing more harm than good. Plus, my iron deficiency is slight to where I don't get any symptoms of it. It probably was low because I got my blood drawn while I was on my period and that can mess with test results. But the Cheerios on the other hand has 70% instead of 350% of my daily need for iron and it also has fiber along with other nutrients that I need. Because of that, I think this would be a better option for me.

Forgot about writing food journal entries in the last couple days. 1/18/2021 Food Diary Breakfast: Gluten free bread, avocado, an egg, along with a handful of blueberries Lunch: Starbucks Chicken Caprese sandwich: I felt myself craving this the night before so I went and got it. It has two slices of ciabatta bread, chicken, roasted tomatoes, mozzerella, and pesto. Dinner: I honestly don't remember what I had for dinner but I know it was a good amount to where I can get all my calories in. 1/19/2021 Food Diary Lunch: 3 pieces of Raising Canes Chicken strips and half of the fries it came with it: I skipped breakfast and I felt myself getting really hungry to where I was getting a headache. I was out of the house at the time and it was 2pm so I went to the nearest thing to me. Plus I remember I was craving something fried. The order I got comes with 3 chicken strips, fries, toast, and a drink. I just got water and I couldn't finish the fries so I gave those to my dad. I didn't really eat the bread because of the whole gluten thing. The thing with this place is that most of their food is ok and nothing too exciting but I just really like their chicken and only their chicken. Compared to other places, they don't add that much oil so it isn't a greasy mess that makes you feel done with life later on and the breading isn't too thick (I personally like thinner breading because I think it make s chicken crunchier and less weighed down). Plus there is the sauce. I have no idea what it's made with but it tastes amazing to me. Snack: Banana and some peanut butter: felt hungry but dinner felt too far away so I opted for this instead. Dinner: Rui maach cooked with bell peppers, onions, and garlic and rice: Rui maach is this Bengali fish (maach= fish) that is really special to that area. Like you are not Bengali if you don't eat rui maach lol. I have no idea what the English translation for this specific type of fish is tbh. My mom made it and she makes fish in general really well. Additional Notes: I woke up this morning feeling really self conscious in my body. I found out that I gained 2 in on my waist. I'm pretty confident about my body but I have one exception which is my stomach. I always had a little bit of fat there and even what I do work out, cut calories, etc. it's always there. This might sound a little narcissistic but I feel that the rest of me looks amazing and then there is my stomach that throws everything off. In terms of the way I'm built, I feel like I would be a 10 if I had a flat stomach. And even though it is one main insecurity, it's so deep for me to where it can impact my eating habits. I hate to admit it but, I didn't want to eat today because I was disgusted by how I looked. Then I made a less than healthy decision to get chicken and that made me feel worse emotionally because it's like I'm making my situation worse. I forgot to make a food diary entry for 1/18 but for 1/19, I didn't do it because I felt ashamed of my decisions and not being on point with what I set out to do. It's great that I have this journal to make myself held to more accountability and so that I can check up on patterns based on what I recorded, but when I do have a less than perfect day, I do get self conscious of sharing that on here. While this whole thing made me want to restrict, I also have something that made me want to restrict less. I had a sandwich with cheese on 1/18 which goes against my whole gluten and dairy free restriction I have for my PCOS. But on the following day, I didn't break out. Normally I use breaking out as a measure of what foods I feel that I'm sensitive to because of the PCOS since if my PCOS is triggered more, it usually reflects on my skin. Gluten and dairy aren't the best foods because they can mess with insulin levels which are important to control if a person has PCOS. But I notice that on days that I do eat enough calories, I'm less sensitive to the gluten and dairy. I guess that means that I can have gluten and dairy in small amounts provided that I maintain other healthy habits including most importantly (for me and my condition) which is eating enough calories and carbs regularly

I mean yeah. I don't know what else to say except no shit that's what we find generally attractive (and I mean everyone has their specific type or flavor they are attracted to but yeah that is like the bare minimum). I guess I would add consistency and an understanding of basic women's issues in order to not be a dick and make a woman safe, having boundaries/ self respect to the reward category and overt aggression and manipulation (as in pushing boundaries) in the punishment category. Yeah I have been doing this since I was 15 in order to understand what I like and why other women act the way they do. Because I didn't have many opportunities to date for a variety of reasons, what I did to understand what I like in a guy (and I know this might be weird) is analyze guys that are around me, even if it is platonic, to see what qualities do I find attractive or not attractive. Also as I grew up and I started getting approached more, I noticed what things did or didn't make me uncomfortable in regards to a guy's demeanor. There are guys who have approached me who might not have been my type, or I just ended up not liking them for whatever reason but nevertheless I was comfortable with giving them a chance to go on a date because there weren't overt red flags or they didn't give me a weird gut feeling. I might not like a guy, but I know decent flirting and decent approaches when I see it. Also, girls talk about this shit to each other and we do it to analyze why we do what we did or what feeling came up to compare and contrast experiences but also process different situations. But the problem I find is that as soon as we identify those things and try to say something, we get shot down with "don't ask a fish how to catch one." As far as bad gut reactions go, it's the stuff like negging, pretending who we need a guy to be, flirting with other people to make us jealous, etc. that gives a lot of women a bad vibe. And sometimes we can't put our finger on it, but we know something is off. The women who do fall for those things either tend to be naive or not as aware of the dynamics that are involved in a situation with a guy. It can also be a lack of intuition or a misstep in judgement tbh. Sometimes those can be a one off mistake but other times we ignore the signs in our gut and intuition because there is some type of trauma regarding self worth and we desperately want to hang on to a man. In other words, it isn't healthy. Maybe when it comes to first approach yeah. But in a lot of cases, especially in dating to get into a relationship, we don't have biologically masterful understanding of what a quality man is. A lot of it is socialization and what we were exposed to as children. For both men and women, we aren't attracted to what is necessarily healthy for us, we are attracted to what feels familiar because familiarity means safety. A woman who is constantly attracted to guys who are blatantly not good for her, treat her like shit, verbally (or hell sometimes) physically abuse her, typically grew up or were exposed to a lot of dynamics that played out in similarly unhealthy ways. She is not going to be attracted to quality men. Some cases are more extreme than others but a large chunk of women do have things they need to sort through to develop a taste for quality men. We all have some work to do because we live in an unconscious society and were likely raised by unconscious parents. That can also be told for men as well. There is a reason why some guys are attracted to crazy and choose crazy and that is most often because they on some level are also crazy themselves. May not be the same type of crazy but it complements the girl's crazy and is on the same level.

https://www.puatraining.com/ I read a few of the articles on here (didn't read the product review or guide, some of them are super weird tbh). Most of the advice is good / obvious (ie. basic social skills), some of it is a off, and sometimes the advice they have, even if it is good it's phrased and articulated in a really weird way that can carry regressive undertones. I've actually gotten a lot of the same advice as a woman as well so it's not like the advice is only for men even though it is marketed as such. And in general dating I notice that the best way to differentiate between conscious and unconscious sources is to evaluate what the source thinks is a desirable man/woman (lets just say the ideal you want to be). Another way is to see how they define a quality guy/girl (who is the best to pursue). If both of those things seem reasonable go forth, if it seems mostly reasonable , go with a grain of salt, and if it seems regressive and toxic af, run. Normally when I would think about pick up and how it is manipulative I mainly think of the contents of this article. Before me really looking into it and the different types of pick up, this was my initial intro to pickup: https://www.bustle.com/p/7-pickup-artist-techniques-to-look-out-for-15897579

It's good that you are trying to see god's perspective. But in order to move into tier 2, you need to be able to differentiate between the absolute POV and the relative POV and understand which is applicable in a conversation. I know that evil technically doesn't exist in the nature of reality in the absolute perspective but in this thread and discussion, I'm not trying to discuss the absolute. I'm discussing the relative, specifically the relative female perspective on pick up vs the relative male perspective. I guess what I'm trying to say, lets not get too ahead of ourselves. Expecting society to fix itself can easily turn to stagnation. Yes on the collective, we are all going on a certain trajectory, but the collective is also made of individuals, and as individuals we can't simply stay idle, look at each other, and do nothing. Society will fix itself but we are still part of society and we need to do our part whether it is having difficult conversations, in acting policy, having a life purpose etc. It doesn't mean we have to riot and demonize. And in this case it is also looking at the limitations and the strengths of things such as pick up. You can literally say that about anything from an absolute perspective. Right now we are talking about the relative perspective. Be careful of false equivalencies.

I can see how learning how to date or attract someone in order to get your foot in the door does not equate to learning how to be in a healthy relationship. To me learning how to date also involves learning what you want and selecting a healthy partner wisely if that is what you wish to do. And in order to choose a healthy partner or to be appealing to a healthy partner, it's important to have your own house in order. Which is why sometimes doing things right else where in your life can help you be more successful in your dating life and vice versa. In order to do all that and get into a healthy relationship to where you are a good partner, you're going to need a lot of self awareness and sometimes a shit ton of therapy. Solving a confidence issue or social awkwardness is scratching the surface of developing yourself as a person when it comes to conscious relationships. Sometimes, people can go from being a socially awkward dumpster fire to a charismatic dumpster fire especially in the cases of red pill pick up. Which is why it's important to differentiate between curating a skill and actually growing as a person. Curating a skill can look like developing enough social skills to get laid but real growth involves changing your mindset, raising your consciousness, and evaluating your values.

Yeah I would also stress the importance of having close female friends purely on a platonic basis. A lot of my guy friends who typically understand women better are the ones that have female friends they aren't involved with. Then those guys take whatever they know about female nature intuitively they learned through those friendships and they can apply it to their dating life and as a result they are typically perceived better and know how to deal with women more. Personally, I see a guy who has some female friends that he isn't romantically or sexually involved with as a green flag because it tells me that women generally are comfortable around him and he can get along with women in general on a deeper level.

I really appreciate your insight and yeah this was my main goal into starting this thread. I was hoping to see what elements of my resistance comes up in my end and what comes up in other people's end in order to understand the situation better. I noticed myself getting triggered and at this point I feel like I'm in a less reactive place to lean into that discomfort and come out the other side with more understanding rather than frustration.

I watched this video as well as a few others by him. It seems like really reasonable advice. I have a couple disagreements here (but then again that is me with literally any self help type of video because I try to take things with a grain of salt) and there but the overall premise of the video appears very healthy. It also mirrors a lot of the other dating advice videos I have watched that were geared towards women which I find interesting because it tells me that the process of attraction has a lot more similarities between the sexes. I guess if I were to find this video on my own, I would be more likely to just label this as general dating advice rather than pick up (but perhaps that is because of my previous limited understanding of the range of pick up across different levels of consciousness). I guess my question is, what is the difference between regular dating advice and pick up if there is any?

I'm not trying to shame guys who get into pick up rather sometimes I do criticize pick up itself. Not to be cliche but it's the whole love the sinner hate the sin type of deal. But I feel that any critique to pick up can cause men to feel like they are being attacked because pick up can get tied to your identity like a lot of things. In this thread, I'm trying to understand pick up and present why it is I and many women get triggered by this type of content and language. I apologize if my long responses may look like I'm trying to fight but I honestly want to make sure I'm not missing anything in what I have to say and so that I can try to develop a more nuanced take on this apart from my initial *RED ALERT* response. I didn't plan on getting into my point of view in regards to my relationship with dating because I didn't want to stray from the topic, but here I find it necessary. While I can't fully empathize with what it's like to be a guy in this situation, I do know what it's like to be a woman with little experience with the opposite sex. I also see some parallels which I do find interesting and applicable to this discussion. As a woman who didn't get any attention from guys (other than the sketchy kind I talked about in my original post), I did wanted to get better at dating and understanding how to maneuver these types of situations. I wanted a sense of normalcy because in my mind as someone who was then 18, never had a boyfriend, never kissed a guy, and sure as hell haven't had anything remotely sexual happen to me, I felt as if I was being left behind from my peers. I was afraid that these experiences made me less mature and socially inept. But most of all, I doubted my own sense of desirability and at times I did fall into a victim narrative where I thought things along the lines of "men are sociopathic assholes who just want to fuck and move on with their lives, they could never care about me" "no good guys exist/ good guys are extremely rare" "I'm not attractive to men nor am I relationship material" and "there is something inherently wrong with me." Plus, being seen as beautiful and worthy of a relationship, being pursued in a romantic sense, and having a relationship are very tied with femininity and often toxically so. I know a lot of women who base their self worth on whether or not they are in a relationship because society has taught us that this is what is the most important thing to have as a woman. Forget being smart, forget your success, the fact that you don't have a man means you are a failure and you are unlovable in some way. You are fucked up if you are single. I would imagine that as a man in a similar situation, you do feel abnormal and left behind for not having those experiences. And while it isn't the same as my situation, I can see how having a lot of sexual experience is very tied with masculinity therefore not being good with girls can feel very, not necessarily feminine, but rather emasculating. I can imagine wanting to scapegoat you're lack of experience to other areas of your life that you might feel insecure about whether that be you socioeconomic status, your looks, your introverted personality etc. I can imagine feeling like you are doing everything right in terms of being nice and still not getting anywhere therefore you build up this victim narrative of "women are sociopathic assholes who want money and materialistic things and move on with their lives, they could never care about me" or "there is something inherently wrong with me" Plus, sexual experience is very tied with masculinity because we expect men to be horny all the time and constantly be out looking for sex. That can be pretty toxic. Especially with being a virgin, in some ways I can see it being worse for guys because there is no archetype of masculinity (at least from what I can think of) that is inclusive to guys who lack experience. In other words, you are fucked up if you are single. For both genders, society puts a lot of emphasis on being in a relationship or having sexual experience, and it isn't healthy for either gender. I've had people who when they find out that I'm a virgin or that I haven't had a boyfriend ever, they are shocked. They are always like "but you're so funny and smart etc. how can a good person like you can be single?" It's this notion that if you are single there is something wrong with you. But I have met both men and women who are perfectly normal healthy individuals who just didn't have much experience in dating for whatever reason. And when you hear that type of thing over and over again, it can be difficult to not internalize and wonder wtf is wrong with you. Like I feel like people who lack experience sometimes can fall into the trap of assuming they have virgin branded across their forehead and then begin to define themselves as such because they develop this limiting belief even though in reality most people can't tell or straight up don't care that much. I can go into the parallels between getting sucked into toxic mindset from what I have observed, but I'll pause right here so people can take a moment to read and respond. Plus I have shit to do and I'm tired of typing.

Fair enough. That is a very common media phenomenon. The loudest and the most obnoxious cases are the ones that get publicity and as a result there is this false sense of reality people can get into. But by no means do they represent an everyday scenario

@mmKay Thank you so much for linking that video. I was just about to ask for some sources. I'll be sure to binge later on A lot of damage in society comes from a place of pain from the collective. While I can empathize with the pain, I cannot excuse the consequences. Reasons=/= Excuses. We are all broken in some shape or way but we don't all end up like this. I like on how you explained the red pill aspect of all of this because that is often what I see reflected in a lot of pick up language and concepts. That's why I get concern when I see things regarding pick up. I'm beginning to understand it a little more. But I would disagree with women creating the red pill cult. Red pill is a phenomenon that is very rooted in the patriarchy. The reason why a lot of men don't understand women and find dating difficult is because (this is probably scratching the surface tbh) Men aren't compelled to learn about social cues and emotional sensitivity as much as women: For women, we get taught this often to an extreme where we are told to take everyone else's emotional state to consideration but our own. Men are often compelled to repress emotions from society from a very young age: When people are cut off from their own emotions, often times we get cut off from other people's emotions and again out ability to empathize. Because of my upbringing, I do have experience in this. The female perspective isn't as vocal nor does it have much of a platform in society compared to the male perspective: We live in a man's world and often times we accept that as the norm rather than trying to understand anything else that can deviate from it. This part screams !!!! YIKES !!!! I have met charismatic guys who have good social skills resort to manipulative and sometimes very dangerous shit. I think there is this image in society that a man who rapes a woman is like this social awkward hermit lurking in an alley way. That is not the case by far. It could literally be anyone. The common denominator is a desire to exert power. You cannot blame women for this. It reeks of victim blaming and is part of men not wanting to take responsibility for their actions. I know in a later comment you said that you aren't blaming women, I would look into that thought a little more closely. You can't equate theft with rape. I can think of a good reason to steal things, or hell kill someone (like out of self defense for example) but I can't think of a good reason to rape someone regardless of gender. Another thing that I forgot to mention is that yes we all have a survival agenda when it comes to dating, but they are not all equal. Be very careful of false equivalencies. A guy feeling insecure about not being able to get laid and a woman being in fear for her life because disrespecting women is so normalized is not the same thing To an extent I agree with this. But I think it's important to define what I mean by empathize and accept. Just because you understand where someone is coming from doesn't mean that you are ok with it or you agree with it. Sometimes accepting something isn't about agreement rather it is about acknowledgement. For instance, in order to deal with the causes of violent crime, you can't demonize criminals and create a war against them, rather you have to empathize and understand the systems at play to create this behavior whether they are social or infrastructural. As for accepting and not agreeing, an example I can think of is the way left leaning people are more accepting towards America's racist past. While they don't like it and actively fight against the institutions it brought, they are willing to talk about it and not erase that history while conservatives want to repress it and see America as this happy land of the free to feed into their egos because it hurts them too much to recognize their own racist ideology because it conflicts with their image of America and therefore their identities. What I'm trying to say is that you can be vehemently against manipulation and enabling abusers and still come from empathy and acceptance. There is a huge, yet nuanced difference between acceptance= being ok with something while acceptance = acknowledging the situation at hand. I agree with you Preety because it is so easy to feel like you can accept this reality when you aren't on the receiving end of it when it comes to accepting in regards to being ok/ at peace with it. Women aren't more emotional because that's just how women are. Women are more emotional because a lot of things that are done to us exists in a much larger social context and somethings don't ping at men the same way it pings at us because men don't have the same type of collective trauma. Also I 100% agree with differentiating between pick up and conscious dating. Pick up can be a loaded term that lacks nuance. From what I understand, pick up can range from how to develop social skills so you aren't scared shitless around women all the way to red pill. To me there is too much of a range for everything to be lumped into one category. 100% agree with this. I know for me, learning how to flirt and be more open with guys has helped me develop as a person in numerous ways through many areas of life. I won't get into my story because I don't want to stray from the point but I can see the same being true with men. Along with the red pill stuff I do know that there are a lot of pick up people who ended up in jail because of rape and/ or sexual harassments. When I saw those things, I will say that I wasn't surprised considering the themes I have delved into in my original post.

Yeah I saw that comment and I thought it was pretty insightful. And I agree with the proper male initiations thing as well. I think I remember seeing a vaush video where he talks about how now a days the proper way of being masculine is muddied by notions of the past that are possibly regressive and an unknown future that we are moving towards and how in order to have a healthy expression of masculinity, men also need to be comfortable with femininity. He also talked about different archetypes of masculinity and how the vast majority doesn't integrated the feminine. If I find that video I'll put it in this thread. Yeah those types of experiences can give a woman a different point of view when it comes to the themes in pick up more so than pick up itself. Like I said this scratches the surface. I have friends who have encountered much worse. From what I understand, pick up if it is done right and consciously, is going to look pretty natural and charismatic, not sketchy and manipulative like @RendHeaven mentioned. It can be a way of gaining confidence and increasing one's social skills. As for the thicker skin comment, women have been taught to suck it up and brush this stuff off as "boys will be boys" and often times we are blamed for these situations instead of holding men accountable. I know we have a long way to go and this type of thing will stick around for god knows how long. Pretty sure my grandkids would have to deal with this. It seems like trauma to yall, and it is don't get me wrong, but a lot of this has also been normalized as part of the female experience, which I think is dangerous. I think that phrase is a good way of describing self bias and self agenda. To a woman, it's more about the themes that it draws parallel to (predator vs prey, being dominated in a social setting, manipulation etc.). Again, I'm not trying to disagree, I'm just trying to explain our perception is coming from and what is shaping it. I guess the other thing with women is that the decent guys don't approach as often and it usually the loudest, most obnoxious individuals that end up getting the attention so we get this false sense of scarcity. Because if a guy never approaches me, I'm never going to know if it's because he is anxious or simply not interested. Instead it's the bold ones usually the creeps or fuck boys that approach and sometimes they do it in cringy or low conscious ways. I have tried to raise the point of leading with empathy instead of blatant sexual intent in other threads numerous times. You can be empathetic and direct when approaching a girl and not be overtly sexual to where she gets uncomfortable. She will still get the message that you are interested in her. A lot of the times when I say this, I get told by guys "oh you're just saying that because you're self biased, this is how guys get friendzoned." Because of that, sometimes I get this image of pick up being devoid of empathy. But if what you are saying about pick up being about social awareness, I'm for it even if in the intial stages of learning social skills is a little awkward. I'm willing to look into this subject tbh. I mean you won't really know if it's selfish intent or empathy until you spend some time getting to know a guy. But when it comes to approaching, often times women can get a general impression. I guess what I mean by my examples is blatantly selfish and lacking social tact, so maybe that's where the miscommunication lies. Telling a woman you think she is attractive is much more empathetic than catcalling her for example. That's what I was talking about.

Also note: I'm not going to be replying to many comments. I have said what I said and I expanded on it pretty extensively. Plus I want to be all ears regarding this topic and the reactions it might cause.

@Khr @Preety_India @Emerald This might be a tangent but I have seen the term slut be used in two ways. The most commonly used one is where a woman liking sex and having a lot of sex is referred to as a derogatory term used to undermine female sexuality. The other way is where a woman doesn't have many standards and doesn't have the healthiest reasons for having a lot of sex (I've seen slut be used in this way a few times here and there but not too often). There seems to be a overlap because there is a common misconception where if you have a lot of sexual partners, then you either don't value yourself highly or you don't have standards. But in a lot of cases, having standards or a lack there of and having a lots of sexual partners vs having a few, are two separate traits. For example, lets say you have a woman who has a few partners, lets say 2 and she slept with them because she wanted to prove something to herself or she didn't want to express her own boundaries. To the person who uses the second definition of a slut where a slut refers to a lack of standards and a lack of healthy reasons for having sex, this woman is a slut. To the person who uses the first definition of a slut, this example isn't an example of a slut. Another example is a woman who sleeps around a lot but she is doing it for healthy reasons like lets say she wants to explore her sexuality more. This woman isn't coming from a place of trauma, sleeping around is actually the right decision for her and her self discovery. To the people who use the first definition of a slut, this woman is a slut but if you use the second definition, this person isn't a slut because her desire to engage in this type of behavior is coming from an authentic source. Sometimes I see this type of miscommunication where one party is using one definition of slut and the other party is using the other. And the best way I deal with it is by not having slut as a part of my vocabulary (mainly because it can be seen as derogatory in many cases) because it can lead to miscommunication. To me, a woman's (or really any person's respect for themselves) respect for herself is not reflected in where her boundaries lie and what she is ok with but rather her ability to enforce her boundaries and stand up for herself regardless of where she stands. Every person's expression of authenticity is different and different things can be healthy and empowering to different people so you can't say any hard and fast rules about what should and shouldn't be ok or where boundaries need to lie. But it is up to an individual to respect their own authenticity and stand up for themselves if they personally feel that their boundary might be crossed. I hope that makes sense and I would like to know what yall think.

Like what @Preety_India said, this is about standards not whether or not a woman is ok with a casual relationship. I watched this video and I would say it's over all really good advice for men. As someone with standards, while I'm not looking for a casual relationship at the moment, if I were to be seeking something casual, I would want a guy to be up front with me on his intentions. I wouldn't want him to be manipulative and dishonest with me, promise me something he has no intentions with following up on, and then leave me as soon as he is done fucking me. If you want to have a casual relationship with a woman, being up front will help you a lot because honesty will build trust and even in casual situation, a woman needs a certain degree of trust to want to have sex. There is nothing wrong with women who want a casual relationship or want to sleep around. But even those women, if they are quality women who have standards (or hell a woman with common sense and a desire for personal safety), aren't going to put up with creepy behavior which include but not limited to feeling pressurized or manipulated by men into something they aren't comfortable with. I know they say don't stick your dick into crazy and honestly that applies for women as well. Don't let crazy stick their dick in you. If you're going to do pick up, make sure it is a higher quality of pick up that doesn't disrespect women and their agenda and most importantly their boundaries.

I agree with this a lot but I would also like to add some things to it as well. There isn't anything wrong with sleeping around as a woman if that's what she chooses to do. She isn't loose, a club slut, or any less dignified or low quality because of that. Context matters a lot and even women who don't typically sleep around might be more in the mood to have a one night stand or two if she was at a club. Even then, if a woman sleeps around a lot, most of the time she still has standards in regards to how she is treated and approached and she still is looking for some type of emotional connection even if it is for a short term basis like a hook up or a friends with benefits. But yeah, I feel like PUAs often have a caricature of women in their minds that is far from what an actual woman is like. That I still stand by.