Osaid

Yeah. Judgment is a belief, whereas reality isn't.

Agreed. Leo conflates materialism with science.

I see, that's pretty cool. I was thinking you might have intuitively reinvented some form of yoga through sheer will or something. I don't know for sure what kind of energy you're experiencing, and I don't personally have experience with anything I would call kundalini-related, but I do have my ideas about it. I think it's similar to what I said about being sick, but in reverse. There can be profound energetic states which make it more obvious that the present is all there is, because they change your physiological or energetic function in some way. This can also naturally shift the sense of identity. If a sick person is busy contemplating death, then someone who is in some kind of special energetic state might think "wow it's so obvious that death isn't real because of how I feel or perceive things right now". This commonly happens with psychedelics too. As a more extreme example, if someone took some psychedelics and entered a state where their body disappeared, then it would be very hard to keep up the identity which says "I am the body". But, ultimately the destination for any seeker is the same. There comes a point where there isn't any more "depth" because all is realized to be timeless. This ends the separate self that always desires to seek more. When it comes to enlightenment, it is a very specific realization into the timeless nature of experience, although it often gets conflated with all sorts of different experiential content. Since enlightenment is timeless, it doesn't actually change or evolve over time, and in that sense it gets deemed as "absolutely true". Which is also why I say it's all ultimately towards the same destination. In that sense, you do reach a point where there is no further "depth". It's more like "fullness". That reminds me of something I also noticed with my focus. If there is some quality of experience which isn't desirable, you can always ask "is there any aspect of experience which doesn't have this quality?", and then when you move your attention there it does seem to make the other quality actually move out of focus. I think this also naturally happens when we get distracted or go into flow state or listen to music.

IMO, at the very least, there has to be an authoritarian element, not just "strange beliefs". I spoke a more strict definition before, but I wont repeat that just to keep things more loose for everyone. There is also a useful distinction we can make between cult dynamics and an actual cult. Cult dynamics can exist in lots of different areas of society without belonging to a full-blown cult. One dynamic wouldn't make for a cult, but if a lot of them co-existed together, then that could reasonably be defined as a cult. This is similar to how the DSM-5 diagnoses disorders like BPD and NPD. One BPD trait doesn't make you BPD, but enough of them together does. In my opinion, the deciding factor comes down to whether Actualized.org is being authoritarian or not, and to what degree. At the very least, there are definitely quite a few cult dynamics at play already. It has also come to my attention that I can't speak for everyone on the forum. Maybe Leo is DMing people things I don't know about. This made me realize how important it is for other members to speak up too, and also the fact that it might not be possible for me to decide on my own whether it is or isn't a cult based on my current information. Here are some Google AI results which I think are pretty accurate:

Space is being made for a more aligned reality. There is nothing wrong with contemplating what happened. It's a natural "clearing" or "purging". The contemplation is for getting clear on what you personally want for yourself.

Based Ramana

Seeing and seen is already a duality. I don't need to add a difference, because you've already made one.

No, it's none of those things.

Actually it's not logical at all. It's more like magic. You're a magician. Things aren't conscious. If all finite things are included, then there is no actual observable independent finite thing. It's like a painting, it includes all of its parts. You can see a chair and a table, but you can't say that seeing is a chair or a table. Similarly...consciousness!

Non-dual simply means "not-two". Therein, non-duality and duality isn't actually the same as non-duality. Because there's two. Infinite and finite isn't actually the same as infinite. Because there's two. So, in actuality... Finite and infinite is still finite. Non-duality and duality is still duality. Indeed, there can only be "one". The eternal nature of reality. So-called "God". Ineffable and undefinable. This "one" is not a property of a separate thing, like a person, or a person who is conscious. Because it is timeless, and therein, "already the case". You can't become it, because you already are it. It's literally all there is. Simply called, the present moment. It includes all, and therein, it cannot be said to be any of what it includes. Such is the non-dual nature of "it". If there is a consciousness which is the only thing, it wouldn't be the most conscious thing in the universe. It wouldn't even be in the universe, and it wouldn't even be a thing.

It actually really does. I think this has been exemplified many times before. For example, if you haven't taken any psychedelics, you will be hit with the "I'm more conscious than you, therefore what you say doesn't matter". Leo certainly believes that he has proof. Emphasis on belief. Because it is a belief. The notion of consciousness becoming conscious of a lower consciousness is completely contradictory and laughable. An entire stance built on duality, while pretending to be non-dual. But what would happen if someone believed? Control. Isolation. Spiritual hierarchies. Cult dynamics. Narcissism.

The reason doesn't really matter. What matters is what he actually ends up doing or conveying. Structure over content. He might say it's "to awaken you", or maybe he does want to control you, but it does not matter. At the end of the day, what he said doesn't change. The truth is that Leo has a narcissistic view on spirituality which forces him to impose his viewpoints and threaten you in strange ways. The idea that someone can be as conscious as him or more conscious than him is threatening to his whole model he has created around consciousness. That's a great question. First of all, it is entirely possible to attempt to communicate what someone doesn't understand without engaging in cult dynamics. This is what enlightened teachers have been doing across history, and it's how the term "enlightenment" started to propagate. Look at Ramana Maharshi, Jiddu Krishnamurti, etc. You can consider that a teacher might know something you don't, but if you were versed on cult dynamics/narcissism, or if you were simply honest and authentic to your own experience, you would immediately sense when someone is trying to manipulate you or put you in some kind of strange hierarchy about your own consciousness and your own experience. Kind of like sensing a "red flag". That would immediately put you off from the teacher, cause you would know there is no reasonable excuse for doing that, even if they had some kind of secret knowledge. By the way, if you didn't know, the promise of "secret knowledge" is a very very common cult dynamic. IMO, if you want to "protect" yourself: 1. Study narcissism and cult psychology 2. Expose yourself to the views of a variety of different teachers, and then compare and contrast. 3. Don't settle for beliefs beyond your own experience

Did he? I don't recall any updates on that. I was under the impression he was still browsing Amazon for a camera that has the capability.

It's bad in the sense that it's very cult-like. Not really, I don't care about demons or making other people look like demons. I could list my empathies that I have with Leo, but that doesn't change the cult dynamics that he consistently displays, and therefore it wouldn't be relevant to the topic.

Ok this is pretty bad. Back in 2023, but I'm pretty sure he said the same thing to Carl recently. The whole "I'm not gonna share anything with you anymore if you question me" threat.

Dude, what are we expecting from a guy who was gonna become an alien on camera...

Lol. He was "absolutely" conscious of that in the past, but not anymore! Things change and get "deeper" or something, right?

Yep. The present moment is the Big Bang. "I know the present moment" is therein realized to be foolishness.

Oh, lol, well I disagree with that. But not the OP.

Yeah I gotta agree. I think it's pretty obvious what Osho is saying. Leo is just pissy about his words. Checks out

Ball knowledge

Hahaha, true. I'm not a quick sleeper. Extra meditation gains, though. Yeah they start to feel like Superman again. The notion that there is something other than this, like "past", "future", etc. Colloquially referred to as thoughts or the sense of self, yes. I imagine that's the point of yoga, although I've never done it. Maybe yoga is better for some? Different strokes for different folks. Yoga seems to be something that stirs up an energetic process in the body or something. Keeping the body still seems to be like setting an intention that you're not going to do anything or pursue anything. It's like the ultimate form of "letting go", even all the jobs of the body. Most people constantly have thoughts that tie them to the body. At least that's how I see it. As an analogy, Einstein wouldn't have tried to come up with an equation for the universe while going sledding, he would've sat down and simply focused on the mental activity itself. Similarly, meditation is focusing on the activity of being, and that seems to naturally create a "stillness" in the body.

God never becomes anything.

Reading the story, it seems that a great many things are done. Dragons are slain, villages are conquered. Yet, the one reading the story never actually moves anywhere or goes anywhere.

Holy shit, great thread topic. Maybe even deserves a pin so everyone is up to speed. Strange that Leo seems to backtrack, as if it's not the same stuff he teaches or spiels about even to this day. The egocentrism, the idea that "I'm more conscious than you", etc.