Osaid

Who knows. You might find that your desire to love things is supported by the universe in a weird way. It's not very intelligent for anything to hate itself, and if the universe can imagine physics, it is smart enough to realize that.

No, it's a bigger contention than that. I'm saying he's not enlightened, which is why he disagrees with me and Ralston. What I have said from the beginning of this thread is probably worth reading first, but it is long. If there is one argument I want people take away from this thread to focus on, which I don't think Leo can really refute, it's just this: If reality is one, then you can't realize truth twice. This is impossible. There can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "higher consciousness" or "deeper awakenings" or "more awake." There is one realization that is true throughout all of existence, and that is enlightenment. Either you get it or you don't. Truth cannot depend on memory or imagination or past experiences, as these are relative features of reality. Also be wary of the usage of dualistic terms to describe truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more awake", etc. These are dualistic and anthropomorphic terms and thus can't have anything to do with truth since truth is absolute. Truth is not something that has to be refined, integrated or understood over time. The fact that there are any misunderstandings should be a big red flag. This means that the method of accessing truth is corrupted. If you are constantly "refining truth" and having "deeper awakenings", it should be contemplated how this is even possible in the first place. The states which allow you to view enlightenment temporarily are being put on a pedestal. Hence, "higher-consciousness states", hence "more understanding", hence "chasing truth forever." There is a phenomenon happening here where people are clinging to enlightenment-inducing states. States that are intense, frightening, profound, tear-jerking, and the rest of the dualisms. I am not saying that all of the truths from Leo's awakenings are false or anything like that, I've made no such claim, but it's more the case that all the truths he's trying to piece together paradoxically fit together into one singular insight, or something of that sort, and then that is enlightenment. So I am not necessarily discrediting everything. Don't take this as that. At the very least, just look at it with an open mind and contemplate.

Like I said before, I totally get his sentiment. My sentiment is the same, he is guiding people away from truth/enlightenment, which is "love." And to be fair, he is equally dismissive with his comments about Buddhist rats or whatever. But really, enlightenment has nothing to do with Buddhism or the like, those are just methods for reaching it. I also find this idea that I am not able to counter any of his arguments laughable as he has basically done nothing to argue against me aside from either ignoring it or making that spiel about the color red or whatever. Not saying that he HAS to argue against me. I am just saying this point of yours makes no sense to me. It doesn't, this is a misconception. Buddhism and Ralston are not clinging to some state of consciousness that is void of imagination or anything like that. They're both pointing to the same thing, which is truth/enlightenment. That empty/pure consciousness, or "turiya" as it is sometimes called, is simply a specific state of consciousness which makes it easier to see your true nature (similar to a psychedelic state), but that is not enlightenment at all. Enlightenment exists in all experience, no matter how alien or non-alien it is, because it is truth, so of course it would.

True I heard he puts spongebob quotes on people's threads

I think the psychedelics did it to be honest. What a devious play it is to mix genuine profound truths in with symbolic egoic experiences. It's like telling someone a half-truth, but on a profound metaphysical level. Clinging to enlightenment-inducing states, as said at the beginning of this thread. Psychedelics should only ever be pursued when enlightened, or to open the mind of someone who is seriously closed-minded as a desperate measure.

Maybe. I found that episode in particular odd because it wasn't very clear. It was basically a different version of his solipsism episode, a more holistic one because it tried to account for multiple experiences being in one, but still kind of redundant.

I didn't learn it, I was literally on the same boat as you until I became enlightened. None of what I'm saying is learned I'm literally just describing my current experience. Yeah sorry I guess I'll pass on the AWAKENING™. I am curious about Alien Love and the alien stuff in general though, sounds like a very interesting experience. I'm not doubting any of the profundity of your awakenings to be clear, I'm sure they're great.

The reason why enlightened people seem to diminish your revelations is because it becomes so damn clear who knows what they're talking about when you're just directly conscious of it all the time. It's like someone is seeing the color red in front of them and you're like "No, there's more to perceiving red than that, there's an alien red, and this red, and that red..." And then you understand, oh ok, this guy can't see what red is.

No gaslighting, just a misinterpretation of what Ralston is saying. Enlightenment encompasses all the different aspects of truth you talk about, because there really is just one truth. To define it strictly as "love" becomes misleading for someone who is looking for that and has NOT achieved it yet. This is so obvious. Your forum is 100% proof of this. Hence all the confused and disturbed threads about solipsism and love. You yourself are confused, so you interpret the confused threads as just "part of the work." You think, "Oh, I've been there before, they'll get over it and become as awakened as me eventually." No. They are misunderstanding things, full stop. The fact that this could happen in the first place should raise alarm bells. Their method of accessing truth is corrupted. You yourself are constantly "refining truth" and having "deeper awakenings", it should be contemplated how this is even possible in the first place.

Combine it with swiss cheese ?

Extra flavour. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Teriyaki chicken for me, I don't eat out to be healthy. People get mad at Subway for having fake tuna and then go home and binge on 10000g of sugar.

IIRC it's actually the opposite. The lawsuit was based on some dumb method of identifying it like looking at the genes, but apparently the genes denature when cooked. Their tuna is 100% tuna. Their chicken, however, has soy filler or something of the sort, so it's a mixture.

I don't know what you understand. It's definitely not enlightenment or truth though. I think you are wise enough to see that there can't be "two truths" or "more truths" or "multiple truths being realized" or "more consciousness." Reality is one. Truth is one thing. You can't realize truth twice. Existentially all your "truths" and "awakenings" are just thought forms, as real as Santa Claus, as of this moment. You are just clinging to profound metaphysical experiences and then diminishing other experiences once your ego settles back in. Please consider this as a possibility. Use it as fuel for your next trip or something. You are constantly using dualistic terms to describe consciousness and truth. "Higher consciousness", "deeper awakening", "more conscious", "more awake", etc. These terms are very relative and anthropomorphic. Truth does not deal in the anthropomorphisms and hyperboles of human egos. Of course it doesn't. Truth is not dependent on memory or imagination. It's just experienced. There is no need to consult memory and imagination for truth to be realized or experienced, those are relative features of reality. I get where you're coming from, we both have the same sentiment here.

Not really. Dude was obviously stuck in stories about how other people are zombies or something of the sort. Tends to be what happens when you try to turn truth into a language. It was basically one of those solipsism threads you see around here. I found it by the way:

On the one hand you say Ralston is correct for not saying "Love", but then you fault him for not telling his students "By the way, other people don't exist." It's the exact same fallacy on both ends. Both will confuse the students. The former will probably do even worse, and it has, look at all the rampant solipsism threads on this forum. And it's not even that good of a way of describing it, a poetic half-truth at best. Someone did ask him, it was posted on this forum, and he had a good response. Can't be asked to look for it though. He basically said, "dude, you're stuck in intellectualizations about how other people are just zombies, wake up and do the work." The guy was a follower of Leo as well, that's where he got the idea from in the first place. So, case in point. It's nothing like that, it's just that Ralston is enlightened and Leo isn't.

No, big misconception spawned from a misinterpretation of enlightenment. Awakenings happen many times. They hint at or give insight into truth, God, reality, etc. You can have an infinite amount of awakenings. Every single time you take a psychedelic you will instantly have an awakening. Enlightenment is just truth and what is always the case, and being conscious of that. It is one thing experienced forever. You don't learn more insights about yourself afterwards, and you don't gain more clarity afterwards, because all of these imply "more truth." You don't have multiple enlightenments, because that means you are becoming conscious of multiple truths, which is not possible. Enlightenment happens once. Awakenings can happen basically until the day you die.

Because it can never be understood by anything, wrong medium. Any concepts or communications are simply tools for pointing you "there", but they are absolutely not the thing itself and don't have much to do with it, in the same way that your understanding of the color red has nothing to do with the color red. You don't need any logic or understanding about the color red to see red. You might feel like whenever enlightenment is described it feels like the description is jumping around something, and this makes perfect sense when you consider the above. For example, try describing the color red to someone who can't see, and then look at what your description looks like. It's always "jumping around" the experience itself, because of course you cannot convert it into a communication. This is not to say that it is complex or out of reach, I am saying the opposite. It is super simple, and you literally need zero intellect for it. Cats are enlightened, worms are enlightened, babies are enlightened. It is precisely not intellect, in the same way that the color red is not intellect. When humans develop the capability to imagine strongly, they extend that imagination as an "extra limb" so to speak, and they begin to act as if they are not infinite because they believe so. If you imagine that there is an alligator under your bed and you believe it, you will panic. If you imagine you are "a human" who is "this" and "that" and then believe it, you will panic. You will imagine tomorrow and be affected by it. You will imagine bills that need to be paid and be affected by it. You will imagine things that never happen and be affected by it. Enlightenment, or the end result, is purely an experiential phenomenon, as if you are perceiving the color red or listening to music. No need to integrate any ideas or philosophies. It's just experienced. Either you're experiencing it or you aren't. There are no levels to it. Any "levels" experienced are not enlightenment and are instead awakenings/hints/breadcrumbs towards it, or just something else altogether. Relatively, it is a permanent psychological recontextualization of your experience that is triggered by something, and then you just stay there forever. Not that it is inherently related to something relative like a brain, but that is how the universe "dreams up" the experience, so to speak. Perhaps, to put it more succinctly, you are confused about spirituality because 99% of people who talk about it are also confused about it. Straight up, if you are not enlightened, you have no idea or clue what it is, and anything you claim about it is going to be from memory or imagination. This is why private workshops are done, where there is a teacher-student dynamic with someone who is confirmed to be enlightened. It has come to a point where people care more about their ideas about enlightenment rather than enlightenment itself.

You are mistaking truth and enlightenment for imagination. Of course there is one truth. As said before, you are perceiving "multiple infinities" and "multiple truths" through memory and imagination, this couldn't be happening any other way. Existentially it is just human imagination. Again, you are treating the phenomenon of human imagination as some existential truth which applies to infinity, but of course this is not the case. Anything distinguished is imagination. It's never anything else. Nothing is actually being distinguished. You are existentially perceiving imagination, a relative phenomenon. Imagination is equal to distinguishing, but it never happens outside of imagination, it is just trapped in that medium. I am not saying that imagination does not exist, I am saying that it has nothing to do with you or infinity, and that it actually occurs inside of infinity. Anything distinguished is always a subset of experience. So when you distinguish multiple truths, of course that is not the case, because you are distinguishing experience. The only way you are experiencing two truths is through memory and imagination, which means that if someone were to have their memory and imagination removed, this "truth" would literally stop existing, so there is a serious discrepancy happening here.

Enlightenment is not something to do with mind. It's like I'm experiencing the color red and you're saying "keep an open mind that you might actually be experiencing something that isn't red and instead it is actually greater than red." It's just not something that having an open mind would affect at all because it has nothing to do with mind, it doesn't exist in that medium. That's enlightenment. The final recontextualization is just becoming conscious of what you always are, which is what being enlightened is. There won't be another, because there aren't two truths.

I personally wouldn't describe it as nothingness as I also find that term a bit misleading, and I assure you I am not clinging naively to some state of "no imagination" or "lack of thoughts" or some such thing. Enlightenment is just knowing what you are, that's it. You either get it or you don't. And there is no further truths that come after that, because as mentioned before, that creates duality and separates truth from other experiences.

No difference between "single" and "infinite" and "one." No, you are multiplying infinity into multiple infinities. Experience is always one and infinite. "Infinite ways" is accessed through memory and imagination, as is all duality. Truth won't change in that state either. You are really trying hard to multiply truth. But it really is just one thing. More intelligence and understanding as you say might be the case. But that is not truth or enlightenment. Because you are claiming to experience more of it. You're not gonna experience "more" truth, because that is duality and separates truth from other states. Not true. You exist without difference right now, and you are typing, you just believe that you aren't existing as that, hence unenlightenment. The unenlightened person believes that they are not infinite and thus they will act as if they are not infinite, even though they still are. This is how beliefs operate in the human experience. And those beliefs occur within infinity. There is never any actual lack of infinity or disconnect from infinity, that is always experientially just a belief that can be unimagined. Beliefs can occur inside of infinity. There is ultimately no discrepancy. The point of this sentiment "you are always enlightened" is simply to highlight that what is being pointed to is present in your experience right now, whether you believe or don't believe that it is. Difference is always accessed through imagination of course, but it's important to understand that only humans are capable of non-enlightenment because of their strong imaginative intelligence. So there is a relative aspect to this "journey", and it might seem like the end result is related to some relative process, but the end result truly has nothing to do with any of that. Humans have a certain capability in the form of imagination which is able to create the perceptual illusion of being disconnected from infinity. Pretty much all other animals cannot experience this, because they do not have the capability to accomplish such a thing. A worm is not going to imagine itself as finite, for example.

When you actually reach "it" you will realize that there was just one singular truth this entire time and you just stay there forever. Of course its a single realization. You're not gonna realize truth twice! Biggest plot twist ever. There's no degrees of enlightenment. Those are just awakenings/breadcrumbs hinting at enlightenment. Enlightenment is just one singular realization that has been referred to across history. There's no "he didn't integrate this as much as that teacher." It is a singular binary thing. You either get it or you don't. There's no guessing, there's no going back to experiences to make sure you were correct, and there's no changing your ideas of reality. It's just something you are immediately and permanently aware of forever, and then you're done with "it."

That clinging and suffering is by definition what non-enlightenment is. So it absolutely has to happen, or else they would be enlightened. The psychedelics wear off, thus the ego has to come back, and the ego forms an identity using the memory of the experience, and then it nests itself in there.

"intense", "emotions", "me", "sick", "body", "in body", "out of body", "frightening", "disorienting", "never felt before", "drawn to a power source", "it's not like anything humans feel" All of the above are core phrases used to describe this experience/love. You cannot look at that in good faith and tell me that it is not dualistic, temporal, and anthropomorphic. You cannot tell me that the above is something that could exist in the experience of a spider, or even in your current experience, and if you concede to the fact that it can't, then that means it was simply an ephemeral state, not truth. This is a very anthropomorphic interpretation of an experience. A very profound and illuminating experience, perhaps. But just a shifting of intensity and content ultimately. You can see that all those terms are baked with dichotomies and dualities. Existentially, this is similar to experiencing a poem about love, or a song about love, or a movie about love. It's an experience ABOUT something, and then after that experience, that "something" is gone, and it is converted to memory, and then existentially you are back to where you were before. As said at the beginning of the thread, the fallacy of clinging to enlightenment-inducing states is very strong, and it is rampant throughout this forum.