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@Inliytened1 I agree Leo has actually helped me a lot today. I think it’s a common symptom of where I’m at to fall “in love” with your Guru, hence it’s coming across I’m obsessed with this model, when in reality it is merely a tool and I need to transcend it. All I can do is speak of existential experience, and in the last 6 months this background of incredible peace has just been growing, I am delving deeper and deeper into the now, and quite frankly am loving life. I still have a LOT of inner work to do though, and life to get out there and live. Thank you @Leo Gura for helping me notice this

@Inliytened1 all is the self, but that doesn’t mean you need to stop taking action in the world. Thats like saying, because absolutely everything is perfect why bother fixing the chaos in Syria, I’m using an extreme example, because it’s easy to use spirituality to bypass parts of life. The purpose of it, is to use as a personal reference in your journey, and to help you find suitable teachers for yourself and the stage you’re at.

@Nickyy by the way I’m not trying to say this model is perfect or complete. Its a good reference point imo, and you can clearly see the difference between certain teachers, but who knows all judgements could be wrong on certain teachers/ students. Only you can truly know your own existential experience.

@Inliytened1 so is what your after complete merging into this oneness?

@Leo Gura of course, I don’t actually know anything, these are all just assumptions and ideas and concepts, LOC as a whole is a concept, I’m more than aware of that, they could be wrong, and very wrong. Although you do agree there’s of course depths to awakening, and some teachers are more deeply awakened than others. im sorry to hear your experience with Ramaji wasn’t as good as you hoped, nobody is perfect, what LOC did he put you at btw out of interest, and did you receive RASA? Like you said nobody knows anything.

@mandyjw of course, I am not shitting on Eckhart by any means of imagination, I loved him, and he is what the world needs right now as you say hence why he is the superstar of spirituality. I mean there’s other factors such as the Opera appearance etc, but there’s a reason that happened, and he deserves the incredibly success he has.

@Eu Sint That's like saying Donald Trump and Ramana are at the same level of consciousness on a relative level. You're trying to speak in absolute terms when we are attempting to speak relatively. Yes, all there is the Self, Consciousness, The Absolute whatever you want to call it but look around the world, not everyone is as aware as that as everyone else, if we all were, society would look a LOT different. Lol, I was Eckhart's number 1 fan before reading that book and thought he was as enlightened as one could be. So trust me initial reaction was that I hated it etc, it's common to have backlash like that, it was the same when I first ever heard of enlightenment. Yeah, they've both admitted it's tricky without seeing someone face to face, however you can gauge rough ideas from listening to teachers. For example Eckhart talks predominantly about the Now, 'no self and no boundaries' which is common of those in the 600s. He's also an Enneagram type 9 hence his peaceful nature, which makes it impossible to hate him, but that doesn't mean he's fully realized. I love Eckhart, The Power of Now was like the Bible to me for a while and it was my first opening into Non-Duality, although at the time I was just a 16 year old wondering why I felt depressed after being wildly happy all my life, but I am more thankful for that depression than anything else in my life now, funny how life works.

@Nickyy No, you definitely don't Ramana or The Buddha or Jesus didn't do that, it is simply referring to how self realized you are. For example Einstein was a hugely intelligent man, but was he fully self realized? It's highly unlikely. I wouldn't get too confused with the early stages of the map, it's more used to show depths of awakening if you like, but of course is just a guide.

When you truly finish you will no longer search for more spiritually speaking. However, you may still search for more in your relative life, that would be normal if you currently have $500 and want to achieve financial freedom for example. Many people gloss up awakening and enlightenment and expect magical blissful states, be careful if you get caught up chasing states your whole life like a bliss junkie. After all, now is all there ever is, and now is now, this moment is all there is and all there ever will be.

Oh no I’m fully aware, that is only the beginning of life. There is no magic pill, and of course there will be facets such as integrating the heart that I need to work on, and Integration work takes years to fully integrate! In terms of work on yourself, that never ends until we die, I was also worried that was the case when I started working with them, but I’m glad they emphasise how much work as you do is needed post awakening. Can I ask Leo what is your main form of spiritual practice etc right now. Is Psychedelics still a big part of your journey and have you ever worked with teachers one on one?

Yep, self realisation, realising it all goes full circle and this moment as it is is really it, not some blissed out state, whatever moment you’re experiencing this is it. There’s a reason Ramana said the highest teaching is silence.

@Leo Gura I’m not saying awakenings come with these values, but there is common characteristics of certain teachers, even you have certain characteristics of your awakenings and so do I. I know that since working with Ananda my direct experience of reality has deepened a LOT, to the point of actually beginning to have awakenings and embody them, instead of simply reading and listening to others stories. The map isn’t the be all and end all, all I am saying is it can be incredibly helpful in giving you an idea where you are at, and can help you finding teachers you resonate with, like any model it is far from perfect, and your own existential experience is always what matters.

@Leo Gura also I’m surprised at you calling it simplistic, the book is almost 900 pages on Kindle, and goes into immense detail into every stage, with case studies of each teacher at each stage, as well as personal case studies. The one I showed is very simplistic, hence why I recommend the book.

@Gneh Onebar I know they aren’t advocates of psychedelics, as the ultimate truth is this is it. I’m sure psychedelics can help many people, and do help many people in various ways and give great insights. I personally am only 20 and have done LSD and MDMA (if that counts) they gave me great experiences and insights, but after all you have to come back down to yourself and you realise this is it. I dont want to comment too much on Psyches as I haven’t done them and since our brains develop until 25 I probably won’t go heavy on them/ don’t feel a need to with how I feel currently.

@Leo Gura This whole map is based on your own direct and personal experiences, and your own existential experience. Of course it isn’t the be all and end all, but it certainly offers a great guide into understanding the different stages of non-duality. Of course direct experience is the most important factor on this path, my direct experience of RASA and working 1-1 with a teacher has been far more beneficial than just watching Videos or reading books. I am certainly not giving away my power, the core of the message is that you are always your own guru, but a “teacher” can help you see that much more clearly, and help you polish the diamond say. Watching a satsang or explanation of certain questions are great, but it doesn’t really address the questions and blockages you have as an individual, and what path is best suited to you, everyone is so different and it isn’t as simple as just doing self-inquiry or meditation as a one size fits all teaching, it is much more complex than that. I just want to thank you for introducing me to this book Leo, as it opened my eyes to the depth of this work and path, it also allowed me to find a “normal” teacher who has helped me beyond words, so thank you. I was in a bit of a spiritual hole beforehand and honestly, I think I would’ve stayed spinning my wheels if it wasn’t for originally reading this book.

@Nickyy you’re not a seeker at all then? @Nak Khid agreed. It’s about how you integrate those experiences, psychedelics give you great insights but you can’t stay high forever, after all this is it.

@Gneh Onebar of course it does, a psychedelic experience, is a glimpse into the higher states say, RASA does similar, so let’s say you had a glimpse at the 600s, but as it was just an experience and you didn’t have the foundations in place, you just didn’t stabilise there, and dropped back down into the 500s. Once you stabilise at 640< it’s hard to drop down but before that you may oscillate a lot!

@Preety_India I honestly couldn’t agree more, my teachers say life begins when you are fully awakened and reach 1000. to me living life wouldn’t be using prana as my main energy as I’ll want to be out in the world building businesses, playing sports and most importantly having lots of fun. after all the reason we’re here is to be happy, I don’t see the need for all this denial to achieve certain states, maybe it works for Yogis who meditate all day in their caves but that isn’t my personal path! I just honestly don’t see it as viable for those of us who are active in the world personally.

Recently come across the term breatharians, to me it seems very dangerous as it is mostly, even though I am vegan myself, the raw vegan stage Green types I notice in the comments praising this and talking about transitioning. Doing researched I noticed this has actually been a thing for decades with (no surprise) multiple deaths being reported by following a breatharians book who herself failed a 7 day challenge of no food/water under Doctor supervision. It also seems highly convenient modern day Breatharians have 10 day workshops costing $1000's to 'initiate' you into living off of the Prana (Ray Maor if you want to google him). There has also been reports of breatharians being seen coming out of fast food joints which is kinda funny, and most gurus have been exposed and caught nourishing their body with things other than good old Prana. However, there's a case of an Indian holy man who says he was touched by goddesses who told him he need not worry about food or drink anymore and supposedly hasn't eaten or drunk in years, but all he does is meditate all day. A lot of western breatharians consume liquid calories in the form of juices and similar things several times a week supposedly, but admit it would be impossible to live at a 'level 4 Breatharian' (supposedly your body makes its own water from your skin) in the western world. To me this seems like Bullshit, and taking advantage of those who have struggled with ED's in the past, or want a more 'spiritual' way of eating, however who knows like with everything there could be things to learn, as a society we consume far too much food hence the obesity crisis across the western world, but this seems like far too extreme in the other direction. Trying to stay open minded but to me it does seem like a fabrication of the truth, and a lot of these 'breatharians' will be consuming more calories than we are led to believe, it also screams HUGE deficiency problems to me, and more importantly the cases of people actually dying, but would love to know your guys inputs and if there's any breatharians round these parts. This has been debunked in a number of videos on YouTube, but who knows maybe in 200 years we will all live off of the Prana Videos from both sides:

@iTommy potentially who knows, although is it optimum for human health? Most breatharians also eat a bit still. and Ray Maor lost 18lbs in his 8 day experiment, so he must eat some sort of food or he wouldn’t of lost 2lb a day if that was his norm?

@pluto you didn’t really answer my questions regarding blood tests and making sure your body is running optimally. for example studies have shown starvation can actually begin to cause bliss states, so maybe that’s why these sort of practices have been associated with spirituality for so long?

@Nickyy I believe exactly the same ngl. Like my understanding of the highest teachings is that this is it, there is no special state, it goes full circle but of course you understand you aren’t thebsmall I but the big I and pure natural awareness but you have your individuality, the best phrase I’ve heard is transcendental individuality. however not saying diet and nutrition isn’t important in personal development, I take nutrition very seriously and also go to the gym etc and play sport so diet is key, I just don’t think you have to eat a certain way for spiritual reasons. although the more compassion you develop maybe you will stop eating certain things, who knows.

@Nickyy yes it may help. I’m not denying being healthy and living a healthy lifestyle makes the path much easier. My point is you don’t have to at all. Pure Natural Awareness is always here, now, no matter what you are doing, it’s just for the majority it is in the background. To me though this seems more about chasing states, and wanting to permanently “feel good” instead realising this is it now, this moment we are experiencing now is the whole teaching, there’s a reason Ramana said the highest teaching Is silence, and that transmissions have been used for centuries to help people, maybe breatharians can detox their body better or whatever, but it’s certainly not necessary to realise the truth of your being.

@pluto I understand what you mean, but most enlightened teachers have repeatedly said enlightenment doesn’t mean you escape from the laws of physics and our body. It just seems strange that the majority of the most enlightened teachers over the last century haven’t been practicing this, hell most aren’t even vegan, and I don’t see how diet influences your access to the absolute. For example my teachers are certainly not breatharians or raw vegans yet are definitely at 1000. There is no difference in absolute terms between a guy meditating on the Himalayas using prana as energy, and a guy drinking beer watching football, they could both have the same understanding of reality. @pluto are you an athlete? Have you had your blood tests and other checks to see if your body is in good stead etc,l @Leo Gura am I just being closed minded with all this? I get it’s possible, but surely more teachers who are finished would be advocating this if it was true. Id love to know your input as I know you eat meat still, so are you less “spiritual” as a result of that then??

@DrewNows fair enough but just be careful man. I follow a lot of plant based doctors who focus on holistic healing the body etc, and I’m not quite convinced raw food can satisfy all of our nutrient needs, maybe I’m wrong like I said, but I also feels it’s I credibly expensive and very biased towards certain macros. I also don’t think you have to be spiritual to have a yellow/ turquoise understanding, remember SD is a model of Psychological development not spiritual development wish you the best of luck!