LfcCharlie4

@outlandish ?? I honestly do see how it looks loool. However there’s quite a lot of differences between him and say Mooji or Osho.

I was exactly the same as you. im not going to lie enlightenment isn’t all sunshine and rainbows unforunately, it forces you to deal with all the shit you’ve been putting off for years, but that’s a good thing, believe me. You can only truly know if you’re ready, an element of doubt is normal, and the ego will thrive on it to try and survive. what will be easier is to list your actual fears and deconstruct them one by one, list them here and write them down, and contemplate each one. most you’ll realise are just you scared of the unknown and trying to survive.

@rNOW of course this is key to the path. What’s wrong with fashion? It’s another form of art so I don’t see a conflict there, of course having 3 houses worth of clothes and shoes may not be the most conscious thing to do haha. What exactly is your issue, so we can discuss your problems, what issues are you facing and what resistance are you having with your work?

It’s different for everyone but for me, if my phone or some tab is open on my laptop I get distracted. pomodoro is great advice. But I think removing all distractions, writing down exactly what you need to get done and laser focusing on that is most effective. calendar apps are also great. what are you trying to be more productive in relation to? Is it Fitness, Business etc

@Tanz 1) This isn’t a ranking system, as I said there are common differences between teachers, if you read the book it goes into great detail about this. 2) tbh there’s probably people who were on Christ’s Buddhas levels, or even beyond it, remember religions were formed around them, so their teachings survived, think of the countless masters we have no idea Existed, and you don’t know every master who is currently alive to say that. We are also going on records of teachings with Historical great masters. 3) Maybe that’s good it you just want to improve your life, but personally I desire to reach full self realisation, and I don’t think just 1/2 points are going to get me there. I’m afraid the work goes a lot deeper than many perceive, in fact awakening just sheds even more light on to those blind spots and feelings you were trying to avoid for so long.

@Eu Sint because it helps show you exactly where you’re at, and your current fixations etc. I don’t know what is beyond 1000 as I have no experienced it, but what I do know, is life only can truly begin at 1000. No, it is certainly not a competition, you are not “better” than anyone else, it is simply trying to model the unmodellable (I know that’s not a word lol). I wouldn’t call it a rank, it’s a tool to see where you’re at in your journey. Id recommend reading the book for more information, it’s like $4 on Kindle I think so won’t break the bank, there’s depth in each stage. I’ve massively oversimplified it herre which wasn’t my goal, I was merely showing what has helped me more than anything in my own existential experience. Once you’ve finished, you no longer need the teachings, the Buddha has a famous quote about this that I can’t remember, but when you’re not pointers and tools are helpful!

@zeroISinfinity I’m not sure if you’re saying you feel amazing, or that you’re struggling:)

@Leo Gura I loveeee SD, it’s my favourite series of yours along with Conscious Politics tbh, but like you say everything has its limits. Even my beloved LOC scale, although I disagree that it has no value whatsoever, but yes more research could be done into it for sure.

@Inliytened1 I agree Leo has actually helped me a lot today. I think it’s a common symptom of where I’m at to fall “in love” with your Guru, hence it’s coming across I’m obsessed with this model, when in reality it is merely a tool and I need to transcend it. All I can do is speak of existential experience, and in the last 6 months this background of incredible peace has just been growing, I am delving deeper and deeper into the now, and quite frankly am loving life. I still have a LOT of inner work to do though, and life to get out there and live. Thank you @Leo Gura for helping me notice this

@Inliytened1 all is the self, but that doesn’t mean you need to stop taking action in the world. Thats like saying, because absolutely everything is perfect why bother fixing the chaos in Syria, I’m using an extreme example, because it’s easy to use spirituality to bypass parts of life. The purpose of it, is to use as a personal reference in your journey, and to help you find suitable teachers for yourself and the stage you’re at.

@Nickyy by the way I’m not trying to say this model is perfect or complete. Its a good reference point imo, and you can clearly see the difference between certain teachers, but who knows all judgements could be wrong on certain teachers/ students. Only you can truly know your own existential experience.

@Inliytened1 so is what your after complete merging into this oneness?

@Leo Gura of course, I don’t actually know anything, these are all just assumptions and ideas and concepts, LOC as a whole is a concept, I’m more than aware of that, they could be wrong, and very wrong. Although you do agree there’s of course depths to awakening, and some teachers are more deeply awakened than others. im sorry to hear your experience with Ramaji wasn’t as good as you hoped, nobody is perfect, what LOC did he put you at btw out of interest, and did you receive RASA? Like you said nobody knows anything.

@mandyjw of course, I am not shitting on Eckhart by any means of imagination, I loved him, and he is what the world needs right now as you say hence why he is the superstar of spirituality. I mean there’s other factors such as the Opera appearance etc, but there’s a reason that happened, and he deserves the incredibly success he has.

@Eu Sint That's like saying Donald Trump and Ramana are at the same level of consciousness on a relative level. You're trying to speak in absolute terms when we are attempting to speak relatively. Yes, all there is the Self, Consciousness, The Absolute whatever you want to call it but look around the world, not everyone is as aware as that as everyone else, if we all were, society would look a LOT different. Lol, I was Eckhart's number 1 fan before reading that book and thought he was as enlightened as one could be. So trust me initial reaction was that I hated it etc, it's common to have backlash like that, it was the same when I first ever heard of enlightenment. Yeah, they've both admitted it's tricky without seeing someone face to face, however you can gauge rough ideas from listening to teachers. For example Eckhart talks predominantly about the Now, 'no self and no boundaries' which is common of those in the 600s. He's also an Enneagram type 9 hence his peaceful nature, which makes it impossible to hate him, but that doesn't mean he's fully realized. I love Eckhart, The Power of Now was like the Bible to me for a while and it was my first opening into Non-Duality, although at the time I was just a 16 year old wondering why I felt depressed after being wildly happy all my life, but I am more thankful for that depression than anything else in my life now, funny how life works.

@Nickyy No, you definitely don't Ramana or The Buddha or Jesus didn't do that, it is simply referring to how self realized you are. For example Einstein was a hugely intelligent man, but was he fully self realized? It's highly unlikely. I wouldn't get too confused with the early stages of the map, it's more used to show depths of awakening if you like, but of course is just a guide.

When you truly finish you will no longer search for more spiritually speaking. However, you may still search for more in your relative life, that would be normal if you currently have $500 and want to achieve financial freedom for example. Many people gloss up awakening and enlightenment and expect magical blissful states, be careful if you get caught up chasing states your whole life like a bliss junkie. After all, now is all there ever is, and now is now, this moment is all there is and all there ever will be.

Oh no I’m fully aware, that is only the beginning of life. There is no magic pill, and of course there will be facets such as integrating the heart that I need to work on, and Integration work takes years to fully integrate! In terms of work on yourself, that never ends until we die, I was also worried that was the case when I started working with them, but I’m glad they emphasise how much work as you do is needed post awakening. Can I ask Leo what is your main form of spiritual practice etc right now. Is Psychedelics still a big part of your journey and have you ever worked with teachers one on one?

Yep, self realisation, realising it all goes full circle and this moment as it is is really it, not some blissed out state, whatever moment you’re experiencing this is it. There’s a reason Ramana said the highest teaching is silence.

@Leo Gura I’m not saying awakenings come with these values, but there is common characteristics of certain teachers, even you have certain characteristics of your awakenings and so do I. I know that since working with Ananda my direct experience of reality has deepened a LOT, to the point of actually beginning to have awakenings and embody them, instead of simply reading and listening to others stories. The map isn’t the be all and end all, all I am saying is it can be incredibly helpful in giving you an idea where you are at, and can help you finding teachers you resonate with, like any model it is far from perfect, and your own existential experience is always what matters.

@Leo Gura also I’m surprised at you calling it simplistic, the book is almost 900 pages on Kindle, and goes into immense detail into every stage, with case studies of each teacher at each stage, as well as personal case studies. The one I showed is very simplistic, hence why I recommend the book.

@Gneh Onebar I know they aren’t advocates of psychedelics, as the ultimate truth is this is it. I’m sure psychedelics can help many people, and do help many people in various ways and give great insights. I personally am only 20 and have done LSD and MDMA (if that counts) they gave me great experiences and insights, but after all you have to come back down to yourself and you realise this is it. I dont want to comment too much on Psyches as I haven’t done them and since our brains develop until 25 I probably won’t go heavy on them/ don’t feel a need to with how I feel currently.

@Leo Gura This whole map is based on your own direct and personal experiences, and your own existential experience. Of course it isn’t the be all and end all, but it certainly offers a great guide into understanding the different stages of non-duality. Of course direct experience is the most important factor on this path, my direct experience of RASA and working 1-1 with a teacher has been far more beneficial than just watching Videos or reading books. I am certainly not giving away my power, the core of the message is that you are always your own guru, but a “teacher” can help you see that much more clearly, and help you polish the diamond say. Watching a satsang or explanation of certain questions are great, but it doesn’t really address the questions and blockages you have as an individual, and what path is best suited to you, everyone is so different and it isn’t as simple as just doing self-inquiry or meditation as a one size fits all teaching, it is much more complex than that. I just want to thank you for introducing me to this book Leo, as it opened my eyes to the depth of this work and path, it also allowed me to find a “normal” teacher who has helped me beyond words, so thank you. I was in a bit of a spiritual hole beforehand and honestly, I think I would’ve stayed spinning my wheels if it wasn’t for originally reading this book.

@Nickyy you’re not a seeker at all then? @Nak Khid agreed. It’s about how you integrate those experiences, psychedelics give you great insights but you can’t stay high forever, after all this is it.

@Gneh Onebar of course it does, a psychedelic experience, is a glimpse into the higher states say, RASA does similar, so let’s say you had a glimpse at the 600s, but as it was just an experience and you didn’t have the foundations in place, you just didn’t stabilise there, and dropped back down into the 500s. Once you stabilise at 640< it’s hard to drop down but before that you may oscillate a lot!