LfcCharlie4

@Inliytened1 I'm glad there's still someone with sense here looking to help others, what this guy is saying is genuinely dangerous to newbies and anyone currently struggling, if I read this back when I was seeking I'd be wildly confused and potentially give up with meditation. @V-8Can I ask how many trips you've had and was you heavy with it back in the day?

@V-8 Lol, you do you man. If you wanna wake up faster, look into spiritual transmissions, Ramana is known for saying the greatest teaching is silence yet many aren't ready for it hence he invented Self-Inquiry to help people get to the unbreakable silence. Since April, I've been working with a teacher 1-1 which has helped beyond words, we've gone through my own blockages on this path, understanding myself more on a human level, dealing and overcoming those blockages etc, and then a 15 minute transmission at the end of each session, I've had multiple awakenings and deepening of these awakenings in the last 8 months, to the point where I can truly rest in the absolute and be completely satisfied, life is amazing. I'd also rather you didn't try and play some superiority card as if I'm not interested in realization lol, I linked you some of the greatest masters of our time. From your messages it sounds like you're still seeking and haven't found what you're looking for. I was not arguing that meditation is the best tool for waking up, I was merely stating just because it isn't doesn't reduce it's effectiveness to 0. If you want to talk about truth realization we can, and while many preach psyches, I'll happily talk about transmissions and working 1-1 with a self realized being, I find it funny how you made assumptions. You also seem adamant there are still others, that is a CLEAR indication to me you are not deeply awakened, one who has truly realized The Self, knows it all there is, in fact the world you see doesn't exist as you believe it does, it is merely The Self also, these sort of awakenings are what can truly blow your 'paradigm' to quote yourself. I'm sure these guys can also help me out on how effective RASA transmissions have been for them @Haumea2018 @Jkhv1 @Gneh Onebar Just say your last comment, the fact you think Rupert, Adya and Ramaji are merely 'cattarpillars' yet preach about Terrance McKenna and Jed McKenna shows me the level you're at, without being disrespectful awakening goes FAR beyond those 2, in fact I'd argue Jed (if he ever reveals himself) is still stuck in seeking himself, as it seems you are, again I'm not trying to be disrespectful but you're making out these beings are 'cattarpillars.' However, I do agree the flower and Satsang model is outdated and 1-1 teaching is far more effective. Good luck on your journey, my friend, when you find what you're after believe me it's worth it

@silene Defo, Check out any of these Adyashanti Rupert Spira Ramaji They all have ebooks on amazon you can get for <$10.

Vegan doesn't = healthy, I'm vegan but there's a lot of vegan junk available nowadays as it becomes more popular. Whole Foods Plant Based is the best Vegan way of eating imo, focuses on whole foods that nourish your body. But first, what's your goals? do you go to the gym etc, or are you eating just for health reasons? If you struggle with hunger cravings, try Intermittent Fasting, it's very difficult at first but after a while becomes second nature and makes it a lot easier to lose weight in my experience, which is with 16:8 fasting.

@V-8 Can you not see how you're just on the opposite end compared to seeing Meditation as the best thing ever, you have made it out to be terrible, and disregard the clear benefits it has on many. While I don't believe alone it is the best path to awakening, it is clear it has a great magnitude for many not just those on the path in regards to an array of issues in one's life, and especially for certain Enneagram types (such as 7s like myself) it can be extremely beneficial pre and post-awakening for helping with a range of issues. Why not like at things from a more nuanced standpoint? Yes meditation may not be the optimum path to awakening and alone is unlikely to awaken many, no this does not mean meditation is useless and is in fact extremely beneficial for many people. I don't see why we need to be dogmatic about everything lol, certain meditations suit certain people, hence the wide variety of meditations. If meditation doesn't work for you, that's cool there's plenty of other tools around, but it works for many people in different ways so I think it's a bit reductionist to state meditation is useless, especially to newbies on the path. Post-Awakening life is like a 24/7 meditation in terms of non-resistance to the now, allowing the flow of thoughts and feelings etc and I feel for you if you haven't experienced that. I do agree simple meditations such as 'witnessing' need to be made deeper, these are great introductions, but meditation goes way deeper, my personal favortie is Pure Awareness meditation or Resting in the absolute (which is also the aim of Self-Inquiry btw) when meditation is taught in Non-Duality it 'aims' to help you notice that unbreakable silence, notice The Self that encompasses all, and in my experience is a very helpful tool for daily practice for me and for many others Oh and your ridiculous claim that awakened beings don't advocate meditation here's some articles from the greatest sages and their recommendations: https://ramana-maharshi.weebly.com/meditation.html https://o-meditation.com/2010/02/16/focused-i-am-meditation-nisargadatta-maharaj/ https://non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/meditation_is_simply_to_be_ http://www.awakin.org/read/view.php?tid=960 And since you love quotes here's some from some masters of our time, even though no awakened being has ever advocated meditation of course! Rupert- “Meditation is simply to be. It is what we are, not what we do” Meditation starts with an investigative quality. In time the investigation aspect gives way in favour of a more contemplative attitude which, as the objects of contemplation are slowly relieved of their ‘objectness’ and ‘otherness,’ is revealed as a simple abidance as the Knowing Presence that we are, in which and as which all things appear. Adyashanti- True meditation has no direction or goal. It is pure wordless surrender, pure silent prayer. All methods aiming at achieving a certain state of mind are limited, impermanent, and conditioned. Fascination with states leads only to bondage and dependency. True meditation is abidance as primordial awareness. (This is why I worry about the obsession with people's Psychedelic states, THIS IS IT NOW!!!) Adya says it best, true meditation is abidance as primordial awareness, or as the Self, and post-awakening that happens 24/7, and it's amazing

@Inliytened1 @ajasatya @Consilience Defo agree, and about the survival instincts also, sometimes you have no other options. Yeah I also get annoyed a lot less, or even when I do instead of resisting it I feel it completely and let it go, such as with Liverpool games lol, but even in anger there's acceptance but the restriction to not lash out, maybe that's the difference, there's space around it, yet the anger is still felt completely. I feel human emotion is natural, for example if someone raped my daughter (in the future) you're going to naturally feel anger but your response wouldn't be to go and kill them, the first instinct would be to protect my daughter but there is an understanding that things have led to that Rape, it's not as black and white as that person is simply evil, of course some people are 'worse' than others, but it goes way deeper, but with normal people you couldn't say that or they would think your weird for not wanting to kill or hurt this man, but when you understand they're suffering you would instead wish them the help to end their suffering and no longer feel this horrific need to have nonconsensual sex. That got pretty deep, but I hope I've illustrated my point, in that the understanding of everything goes way deeper than the surface level many see. And, while you may still experience 'negative' emotions but the resistance and centre is gone, so they fizzle out and are let go much easier. Life is truly amazing as it is, now.

@Consilience @ajasatya Do you agree that upon awakening of the heart, virtue comes more naturally like I have upgraded so many areas of my life and can no longer participate in certain things. These texts are great guidance and are made for those on the path so it makes sense, and feels forced at first but after a while you couldn't be any other way tbh.

@Highest Exactly man, for example in meditation or when you're relaxing in a Sauana you will more likely rest in the absolute alone, (technically resting there 24/7 but you get me) although whenever you're doing shit you're still IT just in motion instead of resting or in silence. And exactly, duality is to be enjoyed! Go enjoy it and enjoy the weed, haven't smoked in forever, but it's always fun just like drinking is, once you move past non-duality as an ideology and embrace duality and realize duality is IT as well, life gets fucking amazing. Have a good one bro.

@Highest I've been there, what helped me a lot was understanding the depths of awakening through the book 1000, and how many teachers etc are at different depths and you can tell in the subtle details of their teaching. The 'Blank Screen' is common of what that book refers to as the 600s (early stages of awakening) where no self is realized, there feels spaciousness, basically what good old Eckhart Tolle talks about, boundless spaciosuness etc, but it goes WAY deeper

@Highest No person doesn't = prison once you no longer believe yourself to be JUST that person. Then Person= Freedom, expression, joy, fun and a 'vessel' if you like to enjoy the duality many of us negate in this journey. When you realize that very coffee cup in front of you is the Buddha, and this very world is nothing but the self, and THIS is it right here, it is like a completely different experience impossible to put into words, life becomes an effortless flow of moment to moment experience without resistance. I agree with you though, realizing the Self= Freedom, but it also allows you the freedom to live FULLY as a human as you please and to experience this life how you want to. I love it. I just don't like your phrase non-person, it implies negation of the human experience, I feel it is better phrased as knowing yourself to be The Self, but living through the Human, you will still have emotions and thoughts etc, just when you investigate there's nobody at the centre of these thoughts, just space. However, it will FEEL as if there is, and you still live as if you are The Small Self, but you KNOW you are The Self, it all gets a bit confusing and messy with language This is it.

Different tools work for different people, Psyches give great insights clearly, but plenty before have got there without them, Leo is the first real proponent of them in this current community, T McKenna obvs was back in the day, but he only reached early awakenings, and Alan Watts has the famous slogan on them. If you feel meditation, Self-Inquiry, Yoga, working with a teacher is better for you then do that. If you feel psyches are better than do that (please be careful with the substances though, so much inconsiderate use of substances) Or, if you want to utilize both do that, Leo's school is based on Psyches for better or for worse and he's got his insights and deepest awakenings from them, while many may not agree this is the best approach, it's his approach and he's going to of course teach his approach, I for one am interested to see where it takes him as I am not a Psyches user really bar several experiences, from watching so far it seems Leo has INCREDIBLY deep insights and glimpses, but it's the integration that is the challenge as it is for all of us. Meditation is an awesome foundational practice and should be practiced everyday really, especially for certain Enneagram types, but many TM meditators meditate for 50 years and don't get awakened etc, so it isn't a guarantee, many who meditate still won't have much idea what Non-Duality even is, but that doesn't mean meditation, Yoga, Self-Inquiry isn't still awesome. But, as others have said meditation becomes an effortless 24/7 practice post-awakening as The Self has come forward to the foreground of your life and the unbreakable silence has been realized, but effort is required until it is no longer needed. You'll know within yourself what is the best path for you, and you should follow that guidance system, not everyone wants the Psyches path just like not everyone wants to work 1-1 with a teacher, find what works for you and as Leo said have the motivation to follow through as this path can be extremely hard at times, especially at the beginning and it will be easy to throw in the towel, but it is certainly MORE than worth it in the long run, life becomes fucking amazing beyond words, and thinking back personally to how my moment to moment experience was is unbelievably different.

Because it goes full circle, and while it is all an 'illusion' not fond of using that term tbh. Yes you are the Big Self and yes you are awareness or whatever name you use for it, the absolute, The Self etc At the same time, you are (until you die) still a human, or living as The Self as a human, your knowing will shift to knowing you are not merely your body/mind, however you can still act like you do, or you'd never be able to do anything lol. I struggled with this kind of mindset for a while, and to be honest it never sat well with me, I knew there was more to it. And, that's because you can live as The Self, and still be YOU as a human, in fact you'll be more you with less reistance and more enoyment than ever before, I fucking love life beyond words at this point, it's so amazing. You go full circle and actually embrace reality and duality as it is NOW, if this means you wanna have sex, go do it, if it means you wanna go learn the Guitar go do it- you are completely free, and there are no 'rules' such as you have to go be a monk or live in an Ashram, you can do what you want in life, and when you truly realize The Self, and that the Self is all, and that THIS IS IT, you have no need to go anywhere as you realize EVERY MOMENT is it, meditation is a 24/7 thing post awakening, in terms of there is no resistance to the now, no matter what that entails. I'm ranting as I often do, but please remember you can have your cake and eat it, in fact I recommending learning about the Enneagram, it will help you with your awakening process! PS I'm assuming a loving base when I say do what you want, I would not give this advice to a murderer, but once you realize love you'll get what I mean. PPS I'm talking purely from direct experience, this is my experience NOW.

Don't forget there's a LOT of gurus who I class as fully realized who got there through working with a teacher 1-1, I agree that talking to a huge audience isn't that effective for awakening as everyone is an individual and therefore requires individual attention for the most part, at least I did, especially if not going down Psyches route. I see books, talks etc as tools to help people and as great introductions, but real work is actually working through your shit, having awakenings integrating them and also utilizing foundational PD to improve all areas of your life imo. For the majority of people, teachers such as Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Ramaji, Adya are the most relatable as they actually worked with a teacher 1-1 or had to 'work' for this and didn't just have spontaneous awakenings like Ramana did (not shitting on him as Ramana is one of the greatest masters of the last 100 years) But, as you say, for those who spontaneously awakened, it's harder as they don't have a process as such or didn't go through that seeking phase, so they need to kind of empathize with seekers on what would help them most in their own situation. Hence, why I strongly advocate 1-1 work with a truly self realized being, I was stuck in a loop of Non-Dual addiction for 2 years getting barely anywhere.

@Nahm Exactly man, everyone's awakening process is unique to them and their humanity, therefore, there is no cookie-cutter approach to this, sure most people will do similar basic things such as meditate, but when it gets down to the serious stuff no 2 people are exactly the same so require different appraoches.

@undeather I also saw these documentaries/ YouTubers who are 'Breathitarians' who knows maybe with the right practice and shit it could work, but for 99% of people as you said it isn't feesible, especially those who want to do more than meditate all day, which again is 99.9% of people, even those in this work. As a doctor, how do you think we can tackle the obesity crisis, even with friends who are athletes, they don't seem to care about eating a shit diet 24/7 and I have no idea how you could help someone like that, it seems as if it's only going to get worse!

@Haumea2018 Yeah I get you. Although I think a John Lennon type hippie is less likely to commit 'evil' than say the CEO of an Oil company,as they are technically destroying the Earth, but as you say the full problem needs more Self-Realized people who can then go about tackling these issues with the understanding All is The Self, and from a basis of love instead of the basis of wanting power and greed etc.

@Haumea2018 Oh yeah I don't mean in terms of seeking and self realization. I mean in terms of evolutionary/ developmental psychologically and understanding how people develop psychologically, it was never made for non duality so maybe the issue lies there?

You seem to like mindfucking yourself

@Haumea2018 I agree about your SD points. I think its an awesome model that can help illustrate psychological development, and is great at what it does and hs many uses and can also be incredibly helpful in certain areas. But, like you said for those still seeking it needs to be dropped for a while like everything does, and then after it may return to be used as the tool it is to evaluate psychological development, but not as a Bible like it often is around here. Like all models, it has its uses, I think SD is one of the better models, but in terms of awakening, it can become another issue that you just can't seem to drop.

@TDW1995 Yeah mate I'm only 20 and was 16-19 going through this, working with a teacher 1-1 helped me most, we think we can figure this out on our own but often it's much easier and smoother with a teacher. Take sport for example, you're going to improve a lot more working 1-1 with a coach on your personal game, then listening to a coach who is speaking to 100 people at once, as the 1-1 is tailored to you.

@wesyasz Yeah of course, but I mean if you want to achieve things in life, this will usually involve some form of tracking or planning. The obvious being nutrition/ fitness. But, like I said very personal, many may not want to do that, and that's fine, just for those who want to achieve it would be much harder without proper planning and tracking.

@Highest This is a big trap. You will still have a personality and still be 'You' on a human level, you will be more you than ever before and be who truly are. You will know yourself as The Self, The Absolute etc and rest here but can still live as an individual who has likes and dislikes, and a family etc. You can have your cake and eat it. This was one of my biggest fears, but post-awakening I am more me than ever before, also Enneagram work helps with this If someone calls your name you will still turn around!

Enlightenment doesn't mean life ends, for me, it only truly began after awakening. It also won't solve all of lives problems, so unless your plan is to go live in a monastery and you want to be successful in anything, yes goals have their place. I have goals in most areas of life, Personal Development is still essential in my opinion if you want the best life possible, but everyone is different, I have very lofty business and personal goals because I'm very ambitious by nature, at the same time I'm completely happy, I'm doing everything in life (aside from practical reasons) because I want to and to express happiness, not to find happiness as many are. I think it's great to have huge goals, but then you need to break them down, everyone wants to be a millionaire but how are you actually going to get there step by step? I'd also say do things you actually enjoy. Career, Exercise, Relationships, make sure these are things YOU want to pursue, that's the key. Some people want to work for someone else, others want to be entrepreneurs, it's all about finding what YOU want, not what someone else wants. Of course track everything, if you start the gym, track the weights you lift and follow a program, that's how you get the best results in life in anything. Fail to plan and you plan to fail as the saying. An issue with getting into Enlightenment work is it's easy to disregard everything else, I almost did, but Personal Development is HUGELY important for the best life possible, enlightenment won't make your body in perfect health, your relationships as good as they can or your career perfect for example, so don't neglect these areas of life

@TDW1995 Key mindset, everything is a meditation, effort is required until it becomes effortless, eventually you will see the Self is all, and that all is the self, look at the 10th Zen picture, the guy is living an ordinary life with flowers under his feet. The ordinary becomes extraordinary. It's amazing. However, I remember being where you are now, I wondered how I was going to maintain a job for my whole life, or whether I should stop playing sport etc etc, you'll come out on the other side soon

@TDW1995 That's incredible man, Health > Everything so you should have no issue regaining focus on your career!