LfcCharlie4

@Asayake Definitely an interesting perspective, reminds me of Durianrider & Freelee lmao from back in the day However, I've defo found the opposite, I used to eat very high Carb / Sugar breakfasts with fruit smoothies & oats etc, and suffer crashes, since implementing those hacks, it seems my energy is much, much smoother throughout the day!

@Asayake Would you include Olive Oils in that? It seems the longest living communities eat Olive Oil over any other & in some cases, in abundance. Interesting RE: White Sugar. Do you think you could improve blood sugar levels further if you cut that down / implemented hacks from here - https://nypost.com/2022/04/02/enjoy-carbs-and-lose-weight-with-these-glucose-goddess-hacks/

Appreciate the answers, its all a bit of fun after all and as Michael said I doubt we will change either opinion. I also want to say I am glad you found what works for you & are seeing improvements in all areas that you mentioned on another thread. I certainly agree with the healthspan point, I just don't think we agree on how to get there! In relation to the 5 year point, I'm certainly open to it, and on a longer basis- 10,20 & 30 years if you wish, I meant as an overall community. Personally, based on the data, I view a WFPB diet as optimal for longevity and minimizing risk of chronic disease. You mentioned 13 year carnivore doctor, I could easily mention 10s of 'Vegan Doctors' thriving in their 60s/70s with decades of the diet behind them Also, why would I eat a 1lb/2lbs of meat day when I feel amazing on this diet (and same could be said for you right?) I'm 23 & been Vegan since I was 15, had multiple blood tests (recently one Michal checked over) and all biomarkers are very healthy this included testing for Testosterone which was the US equivalent of 700, which I thought was very good considering all you see online is young guys struggling with low test. I know you mentioned struggling to gain weight while Vegan, I've gone from a scrawny 126lb 15 year old to now 167.5lbs @ 13% Body Fat at 23, with the best results I've seen in the last 18 months when I began training properly, proper nutrition & of course Creatine & EAAS which are more important for WFPB diets. I'll admit I had issues 1-2 years in, but this came from following quacks from old school 2014-2017 vegan youtube, not taking care to reach all micronutrient goals & just a lack of education really. But, since then I've just been feeling better & better Like I said, I understand why you've done what you've done, and I think trying to persuade each other is mostly a waste of time, I'm sharing what's worked for me (health & performance wise) and you are sharing what has worked for you. So, as long as both happy & healthy its all good right? One final thing in regards to Glucose, I eat a shit ton of Carbs, I just meant there's certain hacks to stabilize it throughout the day which I got from the book Glucose Revolution. Shall we agree to set a reminder for a decade from now & see where we're at performance, health & overall wellbeing wise? That will put me at 17 years of eating this way & 10+ for yourself? Full blood test, physique, health, performance etc?

@RendHeaven Firstly, wasn't the lifespan literaly 40 in the 1800s, and likely even shorter before that, couldn't that be one of the reasons? And, most people tended to die from infectious diseases such as TB & things like Pneumonia. So, considering heart attacks average age is 64.5, is it not just a matter of it takes longer for these habits to have an effect on the CV system and lead to CV disease, which is the number 1 killer in the developed world according to WHO. Same for Lifestyle causes cancers- its very rarely a 18 year old smoker getting lung cancer for example? Also, the studies / reports of the 'Bluezones' and populations who live the longest do seem to eat a very plant rich diet, low in all forms of processed foods of course, but also low in Red Meat - https://www.bluezones.com/recipes/food-guidelines/ . To me, it makes much more sense to look at what people have done recently to increase lifespan, than a time period where the causes of death were completely different, like night and day difference, due to living standards etc Also, isn't pure survival completely different to optimizing yourself for not just a longer lifespan but healthspan? In terms of the benefits you've seen, this is incredibly common, especially if you had food sensitivities / insulin sensitivities beforehand & you've basically done an elimination carnivore-based diet, meaning you've stripped anything that can cause issues. Long-Term I would argue such a diet will increase the risk of various chronic diseases, and I think within the next 3-5 years we will see much more evidence of this in Carnivore based communities. One more thing, if you were eating a lot of carb heavy meals before, especially processed carbs, that could explain the benefits, I just finished a book called Glucose Revolution and after implementing the hacks have seen great improvement in just a week. Essentially if you was constantly snacking or eating lots of processed carbs / carb heavy meals in a certain way you could've just fucked your glucose & insulin sensitivity which leads to a lot of shit outcomes basically. I think this could partially explain the benefits seen on a high fat based diet.

@Nilsi This is the most common thing I've seen with carnivore / high red meat diets. You are literally removing any food you had sensitivities with & temporarily starving the body of them. But, long term fucking up your heart & digestion, not to mention increasing the risk of basically every chronic disease out there Feeling amazing for short period > decades of research on what people who actually lived to 100 do. I just don't understand this thinking. I'm not saying small amounts of animal products can't be healthy, they defo can. But, one thing the majority of the nutrition world agree on except this corner is that lots of red meat will lead to increased risk of heart issues. Not even just read meat but Sat Fat from foods like Coconut oil which was hounded as a superfood for a while. Also, why does it have to be one or the other, why can't it be a balance of all Macros / Micros slightly adjusted for individual goals. I think one of the biggest issues with Socials is people like Liver King who jack themselves up with $15k+/ monthly PEDs then spend millions on one of the greatest Social Media Marketing campaigns are what people are easily influenced by. The guys actually going by the data and who look 'normal' will never garner that attention, sure its partly their fault for marketing poorly, but algorithms push what gets clicks, and that's extreme content. It was similar in 2014-2017 when the extreme raw vegans were getting the attention with the whole HCLF push that caused a shit tonne of problems.

I'm actually reading a book called 'Glucose Revolution' about this and I don't think its as simple as your making out from what the science shows Essentially any sugar / starches / carbs (including fruit) causes the biggest glucose spikes, which is where the issues come in when people do this multiple times a day. She's not saying to eat fruit / carbs but just doing it in the best way for digestive health and maintaining a stable glucose throughout the day Which is to start meals with the Fibre (veggies), then fats / protein & finish with carbs where possible, or have some kind of Fibre based starter like a salad. Fruit / Sweet treats should be Dessert as this causes less of a spike, and not as snacks throughout the day. And, you can even add in movement after a meal to lessen the spike. Also, its kind of ironic I've been adding in the green starters before Morning Oats etc and you defo feel a lot fuller & have more sustained energy I think a lot of things are a lot more nuanced, but a lot of people like black & white, especially with things like Nutrition & Exercise

@King Merk I've seen Carnivore work very well as a short-term elimination diet for people with issues similar to yours. However, from the long term RCTs & Meta-Analysis its pretty clear eating a High Sat Fat animal based diet increases the risk of several chronic diseases such as Heart Disease, not to mention the lack of Fibre issue. (Colon cancer risk) Have you ever done a test to see if you have underlying gut issues or certain sensitivities that was causing the issues? Also, to be honest I think a lot of plant based diets aren't prepared sufficiently, so that could've been an issue. It takes a lot of effort- 40+ plants a week, making sure the 8 nutrients of focus are taken care of etc- not to mention the wide array of Vegan junk that is available now I know there's a lot of Anecdotes that point both ways to feeling better, removing xyz, but there's a reason anecdotes are regarded the lowest form of scientific proof & RCTs / Meta Analysis are regarded as the best

Haha, I never expected to come on here and see Leo talking about football Yeah, this is the weirdest & most corrupt world cup ever, considering the guys who accepted the bribes from Qatar originally went to prison, that set the precedent. But, it also raises the question, how many people would accept a 20-30 Million bribe & sell their soul so to speak? I think a lot more than we think. Honestly though, what do you think the solution is to things like this? Because, this WC is a highlighted event, we see it. Yet, countless human rights violations & horrific work conditions are occurring globally right this second, but because it isn't for a major sporting event, its not highlighted. This is not to downplay the seriousness of corruption that went into this, but it started with FIFA actually accepting the bribes to give a country not fit to host, the world cup... However, its still coming home...or it'll be 60 years since it last has.

Just received blood tests back after 7 1/2 years vegan. For reference I drink alcohol socially, don't smoke & have a history of type 2 diabetes in my family (mum & grandad). As far as I'm aware there's no real history of heart disease, but certainly is of cancer, but sadly, these days that seems very normal. @Michael569 Is going to analyse them for me (HIGHLY recommend working with him!!), as there was 1 slightly concerning reading, then if he approves I will post them here & re-post again in 6-12 months as I only read this book this month, and have certainly slacked on the WFPB in certain areas!

Hmm. that's an interesting point! I guess by ultra processed I kinda mean the 3 bullet points you put and not foods like Tofu & Lentil pasta erc I mean usually the kind of person eating a Tofu Lentil pasta w/ Veggies isn't the same as someone having a big mac for lunch. I'm also with you on the 3 points, and understanding we live in an obesogenic environment, as well as how hard it can be for many parts of society to learn about nutrition, afford healthy meals etc makes it easy to see why we are, where we are. 'Big Food' know this of course though, hence why they purposely confuse people & promote the 'moderation' argument, cos 99% of people (including myself) struggle with 'moderating' junk food once you have that first bite. So, I guess it goes back to avoiding those hyper-palatable foods except for when you are allowing yourself to indulge (social gatherings. holidays and the sort) as by simply not buying it, you're not only developing healthy everyday habits, you add a HUGE barrier to consuming it if you have to go to the shop, compared to pull it out the cuboard

Yeah, they're all included in the book, just done a blood test today, maybe I'll post here as be interesting to show 7 years vegan results & Testosterone... Oil he basically recommend cold pressed olive oil

@thepixelmonk Yeah I agree, personally I had issues without supplements when I first went Vegan at 15 and feel optimal with Omega 3s, B12, Vit D (live in the UK haha) & a basic Vegan multivitamin. I would rather be optimal, and this is covered in the book. And, agree, I go to the gym, and we talk about Creatine & protein & that's no issue, it is a weird one. Yet you bring up CVD and suddenly its vegan propoganda.... @StarStruck Lol, the guys already a millionaire from previous brands, all profits of the book go to charity & tbh there isn't that much money in promoting people buying Fruits, Veg & Legumes. There is a lot of money in ultra processed foods tho, hence why they can lobby billionsssss Sure there probs is some Vegan snake oil, but I don't really see the people promoting WFPB + a few cheap supplements as the issue Sure you get the 'Vegan XYZ' ultra processed shit (which is spoken about in the book), but you that with every way of eating the real snake oil tends to come from the fitness industry in my experience, as supplements are the big $$$ there Personally think Anti-Nutrients are exaggerated & easily overcome Fat & Salt I agree with, I'd argue the real monster is simply ultra processed foods, recent study showed just 4 serves a day (say orange juice, cereal, a meal deal sandwich & snack) = 62% higher all cause mortaility....more than smoking Just eat real food should be the overall message Science is easily manipulated, just go to any Fitness Twitter and they use single studies of like 25 participants to support X point, its wild

I think that first point is so key. So many issues come from 'Well Liver King looks big & strong but X doctor looks like a twig so LK must be right!' I wonder if we will ever get to a point where when you sell a program / supplement you have to actually show you're Natty status, as so many Fake Nattys get away with a LOT Also, Carnivore in the short term seems to work as an elimination diet & a paper over the cracks for those who went too extreme the other way (SAD, Raw Vegan, lots of deficiencies', gut issues etc) so I can see why we see these case studies of people in the 3-18 month range, but I suspect in the next 5-10 years lots of heart issues, gut issues from lack of fibre & a range of other things will start popping up I would say I err on the side of Religious Zealotry just because the data seems so clear, not even to mention the environmental / ethical aspects, but as you said small amounts aren't the issue. I think of it like this when I'm asked 'But vegans need supplements, so doesn't that make it incomplete' Veganism may leave you with a cup that isn't completely full, and needs to be topped up with a few things like Omegas, Vit D, B12, Iodine. (Not that most meat eaters aren't deficient in many things, for example a friend of mine who's eaten meat heavily always has been diagnosed with B12 deficiency recently) Whereas, diets involving meat are more likely to fill your cup up to the top, but come with the big additional risk of Heart & other chronic health issues SO, I'd always choose the first option since the data shows it improves the chance of longevity & combined with modern medicine that a lot of these Blue Zones didn't have it could help even further Also, having eaten this way for 7 years, it defo takes more planning for sport / protein related goals like muscle building as you have to make the effort to reach the protein, Creatine is way more important, as are EAAS etc, but I see that as a small price to pay for the overall benefits

@Stovo maybe for a lot of books especially when $$$ is involved This guy basically only got into nutritional science after his heavy meat eating doctor dad had a heart attack at 50 And, it actually goes over the best kind of studies to back up the points- Meta analysis, randomised controlled trials (RCTs), in my research a lot of the Red meat / carnivore / Keto guys tend to pull from lab studies & case studies I know a lot of people see short term success with Carnivore for example, but the lack of fibre & diversity is almost certainly going to create long term issues Personally I’m mainly interested in longevity & feeling the best, and the science is pretty clear on what diet is most likely To do that- the Blue Zones (regions with most people 100+) also support that a mostly plant based diet is what they usually eat @Matt23 whole food plant based focus on food groups, not macronutrients- fruit / veg, legumes, wholegrains, nuts / seeds etc Be fibre obsessed (and protein aware)- high fibre = key to long life, protein for my specific goals! Diversity is key for gut health - 40+ plants per week Consider nutrients of focus - B12, omega 3s, Vitamin D, selenium, iodine When we eat matters Drink water for thirst Customisation is key Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good

Bear in mind Eastern views on sexuality will be very different, due to cultural & religious views. Buddhist monks were celibate for example, but often this leads to repression. Personally I think its unique for each person, and there's no hard rules, some people have higher sex drives than others. Its more about exploring consciously I'd say, this video by Rupert Spira really helped me out when I was confused. Essentially, using sexuality in service of the understanding, not to fill a void etc

You just need to find a sport you like, I knew people who thought like this, then found their 'niche' sport and it become such an important part of their life. I think this forum often devalues Physical activity & how it can improve one's life, Sadhguru & Rupert Spira have good videos from a 'Non-Dual' perspective, but a lot of the benefits are just general life improvement.

@at_anchor Not all bread / gluten is created equally, most cheap breads are shit but you just gotta look for decent wholemeal ones with proper ingredients. Also, you'll go crazy on that diet haha, the best Nutritionist I've found is Simon Hill who helps people go WFPB (whole food plant based) but actually with taste and not some crazy prison diet He also covers the supplements needed / recommended and has loads of recipes on his sites. Most Vegan cookbooks are decent from Amazon if you find a few, just get used to cooking like Michal said and keep adding to recipes you can create at different times of day.

TikTok is the best way to build a platform in 2022, it really is as simple as that Yeah its not an ideal platform But, fighting against it is like being a Trad marketer fighting against the internet 15-20 years ago There's plenty of high consciousness content, you can quite literally craft your FYP to suit you

Haha it was mainly meant as a light hearted joke Not just in reference to Buddhism, but just from being on the forum I kinda noticed a lot of people seem to bypass life a lot & could probably do with living a little, using Maslow's hierarchy as an example, it seems a lot of stages are skipped I was exactly the same, so maybe I'm just talking to myself as I've benefitted so much from going back to 'Human fundamentals' Also, I understand people's 'goals' are different, that's why I resonate most with teachers like Rupert Spira & Francis who focused on Happiness, whereas, many others resonate more with Leo who is more interested in exploration.

Honestly, 99% of people here could do with good old Buddhism fundamentals A lot of this place is endless mental masturbation, and lack of real world applications I'd even go down a level and say a lot should go back to to the basics of Self-Help and life 'Just had my 26th DMT trip of the week, realized I'm the Egyptian God but can someone lend me £100 for rent and food this month please???' A lot of it has become a pissing contest imo

A question for @Michael569 & everyone else here. So, everyday we see a new miracle supplement, exercise, food, diet etc I wanted to ask what do you class as the Pillars of health that matter more than anything, and things every human should strive towards in the domain of health & fitness. (This can still include certain supplements or 'hacks') Essentially the core you would prescribe yourself & everyone else from the age of say a teenager to carry through their life- Mine would be- 90% WholeFood diet (minimum) 7-9 hours of daily sleep Daily exercise (10k steps or the equivalent) 3-4L of water Supplements vary depending on Diet but just cover basic needs + Vitamin D3 if in cold country & ideally sleep & brain supps Some form of Resistance / Weight training routine Maintain a healthy bodyweight / caloric control (happens naturally when all steps are followed) My main 'hack' would be Sauna + Cold exposure- this is SO good for sweating out all the toxins among 100 other things (Dr Rhonda Patrick explains best) I personally think some form of fasting (if you're a woman, research as more intricate how to practice due to hormones) just to learn self-control, discipline & what not Am I missing any? Or what would you add?

I read an investing book called 'How To Own The World' its from a UK perspective, but we call social security Pensions. This was written Pre Covid and the insane Gov spending that caused, and basically every single country is broke and debt riddled up to their eyeballs, but no government wants to take responsibility so kicks the can down the road. So, I'm only 22 but I've even told my parents not to expect much from the Gov in terms of pension & to plan accordingly. You can complain how shit it is & how incompetent monetary policy has been (true) but its not gonna heat your home or pay your mortgage, so at the least prepare as well through investing & building your own wealth. This is the book, great read- https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Own-World-life-changing-bestseller/dp/1473695309/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665131404&sr=1-1

@aurum Yeah these are great points! 1) What do you recommend for people in a cold country? 4) Couldn't agree more! Everyone should learn to nose breath & sleep with their mouth taped, I was diagnosed with Asthma before doing this 5) Of course! 6) Defo- walks, being outside in general anyway you can @Michael569 Maybe you can add the type of Wholefoods to help people? I think most know to eat whole, they just don't know how (we are never taught it)

@Jannes Would love that! But after watching Black Mirror, Don't worry darling, Ready player one etc its hard to see how it won't be corrupted!

@Leo Gura 100%. First trillionaires will probs be made from VR worlds Just hope it doesn't end up all Dystopian like Ready Player One haha where the real world is absolute shit