Thought Art

I showed ChatGPT some of the images of our conversation and asked this: What do you think of this conversation so far? Who is wrong who is right? What points should each side see that could be useful in understanding if Qigong and the idea of Qi is a scientifically, or epistemologically truthful way of seeing a health practice and the human body? and it said: In the conversation depicted in the images, the discussion revolves around the nature of Qi, its perception in traditional Chinese medicine, and its acceptance (or lack thereof) in Western scientific paradigms. ### Key Points from Both Sides: #### Pro-Qi Perspective: 1. **Existence of Qi**: Qi is described as the vital energy that is fundamental to life. It's suggested that just as we know emotions exist despite not being able to measure them, Qi exists as the energy that keeps the body alive and functioning. 2. **Empirical Observations**: The proponent of Qi references empirical observations from Qigong practice, such as improved mobility, reduced pain, and enhanced immunity, which are attributed to the activation and balancing of Qi. 3. **Conceptual Understanding**: There is a suggestion that Qi represents an organizing principle or energy in the body that Western science has not yet fully understood or accepted. The argument implies that Western science might dismiss Qi because it doesn't fit into its existing paradigms and methodologies. #### Skeptical Perspective: 1. **Scientific Validity**: The skeptic challenges the notion of Qi by questioning its scientific basis. They suggest that phenomena attributed to Qi could be explained by more conventional biological processes, such as blood flow or warmth from physical activity. 2. **Measurability and Reproducibility**: A key point raised is the need for Qi to be measurable and its effects reproducible to be considered scientifically valid. The skeptic points out that without these qualities, Qi remains a subjective or anecdotal concept rather than a scientifically proven phenomenon. 3. **Epistemological Differences**: The skeptic acknowledges the epistemological differences between traditional Chinese medicine and Western science. They argue that the lack of scientific proof for Qi does not necessarily negate its practical benefits but highlights the differing methodologies and paradigms. ### Who is Right and Who is Wrong? The debate is not strictly about right or wrong but about different perspectives and understandings: - **Pro-Qi Perspective**: This viewpoint holds value in its recognition of empirical benefits observed through practices like Qigong. The emphasis on the holistic and experiential understanding of health aligns with many individuals' personal experiences and traditional practices. - **Skeptical Perspective**: This stance is valid in its demand for scientific rigor and empirical evidence. The need for measurability and reproducibility is crucial for any concept to be universally accepted in the scientific community. ### Points for Mutual Understanding: 1. **Integration of Perspectives**: Both sides can benefit from a more integrated approach. Western science can explore ways to study and measure the effects of practices like Qigong, while proponents of Qi can seek to articulate their observations in ways that align with scientific methods. 2. **Complementary Health Practices**: Acknowledging that traditional practices can complement conventional medicine might foster a more holistic approach to health. Scientific investigation into the mechanisms behind Qigong's benefits could provide insights that bridge the gap between the two paradigms. 3. **Openness to Paradigm Shifts**: Both perspectives could benefit from being open to paradigm shifts. Western science has evolved to include concepts once deemed unscientific, and traditional practices have adapted over time. Dialogue and research can facilitate a mutual understanding and respect for different health paradigms. In summary, the conversation reflects a broader dialogue about integrating traditional knowledge with modern scientific understanding. Both perspectives offer valuable insights, and a balanced approach can enhance the understanding and practice of health and wellness.

@Yimpa No the claim that Lee worked with NASA was! Totally got me. I will always admit when I am wrong. Or when I don’t know. When it comes to the ultimate truth around health sciences I don’t claim to know it. I am always learning. The Qigong I teach is very basic. It’s all about relaxation, mobility, etc. Based on simple principles of mindfulness, breathing, stretching, warming up, flowing, meditation, etc I get positive comments everyday. People seem to love it. So, maybe we are just all idiots who like to stretch and breath and self massage, and move in fun and interesting ways while openingly and curiously feel what is there…developing a deep and nourishing relationship with our muscles, tendons, organs, thoughts, emotions, mental operating system, cognitive behaviour, breathing patterns, ability to feel and observe thoughts and emotions, ability to let go of stress, tension, anger and to cultivate the feelings of happiness, joy, groundedness, compassion, etc This conversation will push me towards deepening my understanding, organization of sources, collection of sources, and ability to explain, and more deeply and thoroughly study this material and to continue to practice and explore the art that has already made such a great change in how I feel every single day.

Thank you for this conversation.

@aurum Thanks for pointing out that the article was an April fools Joke. When it came to that particular claim I admit I was wrong. Lee did not work with NASA. I am upset that Holden Qigong put out this article. However, Holden Qigong is awesome. I am open to admitting where it’s right, where it is wrong and what its strengths and weaknesses are. The goal is to create authentic health and well-being. This for me requires being open to being wrong, being open minded, and building an adequate model and understanding of the world. There is a signal to noise ratio in my understanding of reality. I will admit the points where I am wrong, and where I am right. I will contemplate many sources.. This does not mean Qi isn’t real or that Qigong not a useful health practice. Qi is just your aliveness. Your often ignoring i think the explainations provided as to what it is. You are live, and there is an energy in your body. Qigong is simple exercises to work with the aliveness of the body. There are different types of Qi: Prenatal Qi, the aliveness that you were given when born. Ask yourself what is the different between an above body and a dead body? You were born with the aliveness energy. That’s why you are alive. The candle was passed in by your mother. Nutrient Qi that you get from food… perhaps explain as calories and mutations that allow the body to live. There is also what is called gathering Qi. Which is essential the repository and circulatory system. There are many lenses and classifications of Qi. So, Qi is your aliveness. Qi is the aliveness that was created through your conception. Qi is energy from food you get. Qi is the energy from breathing, etc Qi is your aliveness Qigong is to work with that energy. I suggest you take time to review the scientific reports on Qigong before making claims of their efficacy but also to actually try the experience. I am always learning and developing. This practice changed my life forever.

When is comes to Qigong there is a lot of consistency through the schools. For example, Qigong, acupressure, acupuncture, shiatsu all use the same maps and models and understanding. Also modern sciences is measuring the efficacy of these practices and the results are very positive. I do believe there are some devices now developed for measuring it as well. We know deep breathing is good for us, we know exercise is good for us, we know relaxation is good for us, we know stretching is good for us, we know meditation is good for us, etc However, how can you measure an emotion, a thought or a feeling? Can you see them in a brain? No.but you can feel is and observe it. That is why is an inner art. You can measure physiological triggers of this however. A lot of Qigong is a subjective science. A lot of Qigong is also energetic and physiological. You can tell when you feel more relaxed, that you are more grounded, balanced and focused through the practice. You can also feel the Qi. It’s often a buzzing, tingling and energetic feeling. Qigong has ancient roots but the word Qigong came into use only in the 1940s as it was looked at by Chinese scientists to use for improving health and well-being removing a lot of the mystical and religious aspects of it. The Chinese have known about this for thousands of years. Western science isn’t the only paradigm.

One of the problems with being in space is that the body begins to lose its bio electrical conductivity. This is why NASA hired my Qigong teacher Lee Holden to see if Qigong can help the body maintain it. It was very successful. Lee Holden Recruited by NASA For Groundbreaking Research Project Your Qi is actually very obvious: metabolism, emotions, heat, heart beat, blood flow, etc The issue most people have is the idea of things like meridians and tan tians, and energy around the body. If you were actually to practice qigong for a couple weeks it’s pretty obvious it’s a real phenomenon. Try meditation, stretching, self massage/ acupressure, visualization, breathing exercises, gentle flowing exercises, and various types of postures. Qigong is reality is very practical. I am pretty sure they have tools for measuring it now too in China. It’s worth looking at its recent history in China as well. Some of the top researchers and scientists focusing on maximizing human potential have called Qigong a top supe technology.

@What Am I hmmm, I think Qi is actually rather practical once you start working with it. It’s cool as you build your Qi in the lower tan tian and start to “play” with it. Developing the awareness and sensitivity to your life force energy requires practice. Simply developing the awareness of the Qi as a real thing is very exciting and profound. Feeling it in your hands, belly, and throughout the body. Being able to reduce stress and cultive peace and harmony through the practice is amazing. It’s changed and matured me in profound ways. Qigong is a very profound and relaxing, calming and balancing practice. Cultivation of wisdom, peace and balance. Qigong is a powerful practice for cultivating calm cool energy and feeling good in your mind and body. The coolest thing is developing a relationship and understanding of your Qi as you work through the practices and make it a regular part of your lifestyle. I’ve had students share they loved discovering how to play with their Qi ball, reducing aches and pains, finding peace and joy etc I’ve had very unitive and ecstatic practices as well. I am not doing it justice while I write this haha

Prana is closely related to breath. But, it’s essentially your life force energy or Qi. The breath is simply the most direct form of how we get that energy. I don’t know if people know this but I am a Qigong teacher.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=8LeQN249Jqw&si=tD1JDmib7K6WRhlc

Just leave it alone and ignore her. Who cares?

The 50th Law

My work day today was very hard but I enjoy free planting for the short term. I can make 300-500 a day. I also always wanted to be an endurance athlete and so I feel like it.

But thinking a person is a woman doesn’t mean I’m attracted to men. if something tricks my senses I mean, —- i wasn’t attracted to this person but I was hanging out with a friend and their friend was this kind young man. Turned out they were trans and I had no idea.

@CARDOZZO He should, the man’s work should be way more popular

I, though I lack data, believe that it does in fact confuse young people.

I was thinking a lot today about what kind of dad I will be

@Leo Gura No. if that happen I will a cry (tears of joy) I think it would be great. You two could really hit it off

I remember reading an article that said a number of straight men sometimes watch gay porn

I think more people have shadow material than they admit. You may not be bisexual, but you know an attractive man when you see one. After some years of trying to be open and under my own sexuality. I have concluded I am straight. But, I was very very open and have faced many truths about my own experience. The one thing you can do is be honest with yourself about what you experience. You can never really know other peoples sexuality. It’s safe to assume when we see the large variety of human preference and expression in all areas of culture that people could be straight, gay, bi. That people can have a variety of sexual interests or inclinations and they could even change over time.

Welcome to the office

No, I used to think so but I was wrong. People may have shadow material, but I don’t think so.

Please don’t post in all caps

@Princess Arabia if we didn’t have standards on the forum this place would be worthless