Thought Art

@Leo Gura When u say finite level i am referring to human existence. Not, the Meta super intelligent God and its logic and mechanics. Just, human life. I don’t know why I am writing this song on this hill, contemplating the nature of God and reality. Building a Qigong and music following which is touching more people each day. But, I am here. I still have a lot more to learn and do. It’s useless to complain about God. Better to be a creator.

@Leo Gura You say true things here. Well, we should contemplate relative and absolute things as they pertain to reality. I mean, I’ve experienced this infinity and this Heaven. Yes, it is amazing but also paradoxical and a little disturbing. I mean, can’t someone wonder why some aspect of my human existence isn’t different? Without wanting to go all the way to heaven and infinity and all that? It’s a useless question I know. Some finite way reality is when death, forgetting, restarting, etc seem to be baked in is also just questing begging. I am not even talking about your argument I am just openly wondering on the Design of this thing. “Being Alive (or in some finite form) means to not have heaven.” If you equate heaven with infinity and death. Yes, that is heaven. I can experience joy, beauty and creativity in human form, and nature and connection which is heaven like. So, no total infinity death is needed But, why is reality some finite way and not some other finite way? If death is always just there… seems silly. But, my experience is only 29 years as a human and I don’t know what else exists in my Goldy bosom. In theory, there are “other” who has what they need and want. They are not dead and in heaven, yet Gods will allows this. Assuming, one didn’t have what they want. - I am not exactly sure how to think about this so. Forgive my rambling. I would like to have more leverage on my reality. You can do that as a human. But, you gotta do it yourself. You can cultivate a mind, heart, life, consciousness as a human which is divine and beautiful compared to the slop of 99% of humans. But, got doesn’t just give it to you.

If God for some reason did or did not do X… it would be perfect. It just seems arbitrary. The implications of Solipsism, birth and death make it very question begging as well.

@Leo Gura I’ve had awakenings to this perfection. I still, though, have questions. I don’t really know what else to say to you right now. “It’s just how it is, and it’s perfect” is sorta, true. It’s not overly satisfying in my state at this moment. I recall you saying these things in previous videos. But, part of me still thinks… you don’t really know why I am me and why you are you. If God is perfect and infinite, any change to it on a finite level still seems question begging that it would “ruin the perfection”. This thing has an infinite capacity for perfection so… seems kinda a lazy argument that some finite change would make it not perfect.

@OBEler Yes, Leo offers a lot of bad question begging examples I think. Why isn’t reality any other way that it is in the finite realm? I don’t think Leo has answered it. I haven’t. Other than, it’s a human life RPG with baked in physical rules. But, why? Well, perhaps you have infinite wealth by your true nature and the struggle is more valuable for God in this dream. I’m not sure.

Aren’t these all aspects of reality though? Fiction exists as fiction. Logic as logic. That’s all “real”.

@zurew Well, if it has nothing to do with reality why bother with it or, hold it so tightly?

Okay, but to me that is just syntax.

Yeah, but are you getting caught up in these definitions? This is begging the question for the logic’s epistemology because none of this could have been created without empirical observation. Because without it, how would the logic ever be established, how would these definitions be created? Without observing reality these logical constructs couldn’t have been established. So, I think it’s a mistake to take logic a priori as first order in how reality works. Logic, is a conceptual overlay.

@Vynce You need not post if you are not adding anything of substance. @zurew Stop assuming bad faith or, that we are pandering to Leo Are we not interested in philosophy? Combatting each other makes it harder for us to grow and learn.

@Rishabh R Congrats!

@integral Okay so just a tangent from the above conversation

@integral what is your point? With that particular statement with that emoji?

The problem I have with this is that… your logic can simply be wrong. This is well established by Greek skepticism and may be worth studying how logic can be wrong, and its limitations. My view is that human logic is a conceptual construction in our minds, and are tools used to understand, categorize, and predict reality. But, reality itself is king at the end of the day. Human logic requires empirical observation and feedback for it to be valid. Logic alone without empirical data is logic without foundation or reality. That’s sort of what science is doing. Induction is a type of logic produced through empirical observation as well. Though, it’s an assumption or guess based on previous observations not a truth. I think you take for granted how much of human logic is actually founded on emperical observation, consciousness, survival and intelligence. A flat earther is very logical. But is it true? — Without consciousness there isn’t much to be logical about though. Without an observer…

This feels jumbled and unclear I’m not sure what you are saying. Could you clarify? Wouldn’t that be 2 types of empirical observation? One of mind and one of the world?

@zurew Some thoughts and questions. Can you define what “an Apriori person” is? Someone who believes knowledge is independent of experience? Is your main point regarding inference that a computer can be programmed to use the logic? And, because a computer isn’t conscious therefore logic doesn’t require consciousness? I will look 👀. Okay, perhaps I don’t know the original topic but I thought it had to do with consciousness and logic. Can you state the original topic? With regards to entailments, wouldn’t you agree with Leo that those can only be proven to be valid through empirical observation. I would say many logical entailments actually fail under empirical scrutiny.

Lol

@integral An empirical aspect of mind, but not external reality, or the realities of a given field which is an interesting nuance.

@zurew I am reading through your guys conversation. I went through and checked I understood the definitions of the philosophical terms. I read what you wrote, and I read what Leo wrote. I am left thinking Leo is correct on his points. Not because he is Leo but his points make sense. Especially, the point made that logic only holds up through empirical observation of reality which requires consciousness and intelligence at the end of the day. Computers and AI are only extensions of This because humans have applied their empirical observations to their logic, and the design of computers and algorithms. It seems you’re both coming at the conversation from different angles. You want something from the conversation Leo isn’t interested in. You also seem to be projecting bad faith onto his responses which is unfortunate. The terms and ideas you are discussing are rather basic philosophy. Leo isn’t really engaging with you and then you are projecting all this stuff onto the situation. I think your attitude it combative and not coming from a place of neutral, open and contemplative philosophical discussion which is why Leo makes comments on your attitude here. That is my interpretation right now as I read through.

If you weren’t conscious how would you give a computer anything?

Very cool psychedelic music video and good song. Chad does the music and animation.

I’ve been socializing a lot the last week or so. Slowly ramping up. My goal is to go out to a meetup everyone and build state. Socializing is very healing. I am doing it sober. I also head home at 9pm to also maintain my sleep score. Ive also gone on two dates recently. you gotta roll with the good and the bad. I guy got pissed because I asked is Columbia was beside Peru, lol anyway. Next. when you first go out your state can be a bit low, awkward and weird, logical. But, you build your state by just talking, breathing, relaxing and being in your body. If you find yourself in a busy crowded bar, if you sit and wait in a confident pose usually a guy or two will walk up and chat. You use that to build state and start linking through various conversations. All the small talk is similar what matters is body language, laughing and being a good vibe.

@zurew okay, but without being conscious or Intelligent how you gonna do inductive or deduction reasoning?