Thought Art

Maybe, 🤔… Yeah, he could rehash this all again for you. Or, he could choose not too… I feel like he has made his views clear…?

@Carl-Richard I read your list of quotes and I don’t have an issue with them. I’ve seen and observed many of the minds in this forum and in society. They don’t hold up to Leo’s articulation of things. He is one of the smartest most profound people on earth. You can accuse me of being in a cult for that opinion… but it’s honest to me. His posts don’t seem abusive to me. I haven’t seen anyone who understands God, I don’t think anyone here is awake and based on what many spiritual teachers say they don’t seem to be awake either. But, I have to even question myself on this. Simply based on my experiences and the things those teachers teach they address many things but perhaps not awakening. Is that a problem? Like I said, I learn and listen to many teachers. I’m willing to find someone who offers more than Leo on these subjects. I’m willing to prove Leo wrong. I’m willing to admit when I’m not sure. I just don’t see Leo’s post as abuse. If you are awake you don’t need Leo or someone else to confirm it. I’ve seen a lot of people get banned here over the years from arguing with Leo on these topics and showing closed mindedness. Is that abuse? Can you point me directly to those bans and their reasons?

@Carl-Richard “Say that to the 8 or more people who were banned in a short time frame for merely disagreeing on him being the most awake person in existence or his methods for getting there“ Is this for sure truly why they were banned? Was it truly that they denied him being the most awakened being? I’ve seen many people on here question that openly, and say many other things about him openly. “In this thread, I gave a definition of a cult and Leo said "you speak of things you don't even understand" and "it is shameful that I even need to explain this to anyone here". In the other cult thread, I asked him about his definition of a cult and what he thought mind control is, and he said I don't understand what I'm talking about and that I'm disrespectful for even considering entertaining the topic and that I don't deserve his teachings.” Could it be he really thinks that’s that case? That he does find it disrespectful given his definition of a cult and efforts to avoid this?

Notice how when you fall into bitterness about spirituality, the world, this forum, reality, etc how you aren’t doing the work to make a good life. How you are not socializing, exercising, building something, learning new things and focusing your attention on your own life and direct experience. I think the joy and beauty of life comes from doing our own work and striving the best we can in our own lives. We can easily fall into consumption, distraction and doom and gloom. (Which I have done a lot). But, over time as we continue to work, study, build skills, improve our lives and connect with people life can beautiful.

@zurew Yes, I wanna cut through other peoples opinions ultimately. It’s important to do so, and you bring up lots of strong points to consider. Adding me to a list? Fuck off. Actualized should be deconstructed and questioned because if not it is a trap. 🪤 Even if not like intentional or malicious, cult like following of actualized should be questions and brought up. Claims like being the most awakened thing is the universe should be red flags to everyone. As well as Leo being an Alien, or whatever. Leo’s tendency to stand and tell people if there trips are accurate or not. All these things are murky and should be questioned. But, at the same time, anger is there for a reason. Sometimes it has to cut through. But, should be reflected on if it’s a deception mechanism. As a general rule, and to forum guidelines I don’t lash out like that. But, sometimes I express it. I’ve been here for a long time. I know I can be held accountable to swearing. But, also I choose this time to allow that expression. Whatever is true, is true. That’s a good thing I think. 🤔

It’s a general statement. If my learning from a variety of teachers is a cult to you, I think you are wrong, and I take offense to it after awhile. Sometimes people need to be told fuck you. But, time for me to step back from this thread and return to it later with more breadth.

Just a regular crabster

And it’s hard not to, because we all know so little. But, I think human growth requires this dance between learning, testing, adopting, questioning, getting direct experience, changing views and opinions, deciding what to hold on to and what to let go, being confused, being lost, not knowing, being proven right or wrong, recontextualizing, realizing some issues have no easy truth, realizing how the ball is white on one side black on the other. Etc etc etc. Holding any figure up on a pedestal will ultimately collapse. Reality is Truth, and what is true will be true and it will be non negotiable to someone who found it. Not every part of reality exists on the level of relative truth, and some times a teacher won’t budge if they have conviction of something. To others observing that individual they can’t ever truly know what implicit understanding that person has or if it is true. Then there is the issue of other people’s level of education, their brain and cognitive capacity, their up bringing and culture, survival needs, assumptions, beliefs, maturity, mental health, open mindedness, discernment, etc…. What is really True? Is it Leo???? No, come the fuck on guys. Leo is a relative Truth. We are in a deep existential bind. You swim in an ocean of overwhelming complexity and confusion. Humans live in this epistemic mess and nightmare. Calling this a cult, missing the point of the work Leo has tried to do despite being a finite human is sad. I think it’s overall a healthy conversation and Leo can grow as a teacher in this field. But, calling anyone who is learning from this particular teacher “in a cult”, I don’t consider is accurate. There ultimately isn’t, and cannot be a safety net for people misusing, believing, following, idolizing, etc. No one out there is going to protect you but you. Truth seeking is uncharted waters. Your human mind and psychology will try to grasp on to so many things. But, at the end of the day so you really know?!

“If you think that its too retarded or that its too much to ask from Leo to stop making definitive comments about other people's awakenings and to stop completely undermining their ability to make that judgement themselves then go ahead my guy, you do you and you can freely use whatever different definition you want to use“ This is true. I recall having a 5meodmt trip and was like… “It was something but was it God? Was it infinity?” And Leo replied like “It’s infinity!!!!”… My response to that is still… yeah I’ve had profound experiences in it. But, I truly, totally, don’t understand it. And, I have more trips that would be required to do so. And, I can let Leo influence me, or Martin Ball or anyone else. I find when I’m not in that state that I’m distant from it, and it seems foreign and unrelated to my experience. I know the experience is profound, divine and I recall grasping that reality is infinite, that it’s mind, that qualia is God, and a realization of solipsism. But, it’s gonna take more trips for me, more contemplation, meditation, and true spiritual work to come to my own knowing. Leo’s proclaimations are interesting, other schools of spirituality and teachers provide useful concepts. But, I know ultimately I have to conclude what is true for me. I’m not gonna be pressured or brainwashed by Leo, or any other teacher. NN-DMT though, is u deniable in what it reveals about the nature of consciousness and reality. It’s literally an infinite mind. Infinite imagination is my conclusion from it. I have more work to do in my contemplative work, my spiritual maturity and developing my own epistemic foundation free from anyone else’s dogma, personality or bullshit. Everyone on this forum caught in their petty fucking bullshit too is beside the point of why I am here. Leo is the only teacher I’ve come across who taught me powerful principles all distilled into a single catalog and I’m grateful for that. But, I have to question everything. I have to build my own model, have my own experiences and awakening and live my own life. A challenge is I’ve spent hundreds of hours listening to Leo.. but also others like Osho, Lee Holden, Lester Levonson, eckhart Tolle, Sadhguru, and many others. I’ve read deep and profound non-dual books and dialogues like that of Ramana Maharishi, and Abn Arabi. I deeply enjoy these non-dual works. I’ve read and will continue to read Peter Ralston, Buddhist texts and books and that of Taoism. I like Bryan Johnson, learning about it health, fitness, different cultures, philosophy, etc. All of human knowledge interests me. Consciousness interests me, awakening does too and I’ve read various teachers on this subject. You wanna accuse me of being a small brain cult follower? Go fuck yourself you complete moron. Fuck you. You can put me into a box in your own mind but I don’t frankly care. I’m gonna keep learning, studying, growing and maturing and I don’t give a fuck about morons who don’t get the fucking picture of what we are doing here. Leo tries but can do better at encouraging followers of his work on their own contemplations. I think as a teacher he could improve by encouraging my own conclusion instead of just blurting this view. Leo doesn’t have enough data about anyone here to truly guide them on the forum, generally, in a lot of circumstances. There are serious flaws and challenges in all teachers and systems for learning. Get used to it. We are all lost out in the same sea.

@UnbornTao What list?

Bow dowwwwwwn

Preachhhhh

Naps are da Vinci level

All crabs 🦀 will know my nameeeee!!!!! All Hamster the same!!! We be wild not tame! No more crab and hamster mundane. They must awaken! — I am the first to unite Crab and Hamster kind .

5meoMalt Does’nt work for me. I didn’t think it worked orally though.

@Wilhelm44 Hmm, idk but Integral Metatheory is pretty good imooo

I am the most awakened Crabster in existence

It’s his school bro… it’s subtle but you want your opinions to be above his own. Good luck with your truth seeking.

@Wilhelm44 He did on his blog like a couple weeks back. Every once in a while he just blurts it out.

@Leo Gura infinite fart

No, the descriptions aren’t the same either. The word God doesn’t entail a person at all. Godly implies qualities similar or of that of God. Why?

@Leo Gura he’s changed it like 3 times wow it’s bad

@OBEler Doesn’t sound like the same thing

False! You should say “I think…” Leo’s work is not entirely unique. Lester Levonson, yoga, toasim, Ken Wilbur, etc Buddhism even, various religions, other thinkers, science, metaphysics, etc… His work is not something he just came up with on his own. Making it about HIM is stupid. You aren’t in a fucking religion.

@zurew Well, reflect on yourself too. If you think he is wrong how do you know? I don’t know if Leo is right or wrong about everything. But, being God at the end of everything to me is rational. I think reality is intelligent. I’ve had trips and awakening which show this. But I’m a still learning and figuring it out.