Bennn

Formless does not equal nothingness. Nothingness by it's very nature does not exist. As far as I can see it cannot equal awareness

How does awareness=nothingness

Slowly lifting a veil. There is nothing outside of everything. "Nothing" exists - but "I" can only point to it in the moment that I come back to "something." Outside of that there is no "I" to point to or "experience" "nothing." Ultimately the world can be divided onto "nothing" and "something." I'm not sure how to decipher what happens after death - but it is very interesting that sleep gives "me" a window into "nothing."

The only "problem" would be the one that I make for myself now under that belief. So there really wouldn't be one. Not saying that there is one. Just a question.

Still struggling. What's to say that what occurs after death isn't similar to that sleep state (where there is a total "nothingess" and lack of "I AMNESS"

I can see that everything includes nothing - that makes sense to me. I can't see how nothing includes everything - that does not make sense to me (yet). If you have any other insights I'll listen - otherwise I'll meditate on it.

The "nothingness" is without description. It is the absence of me as the observer. Consciousness (from the "I AM" that is with me now) leaves. The only reason that point to it is because of the gap that I notice in time when consciousness returns to me. I think there are two ways of thinking about this. "Consciousness" either exists inside "Nothingness" or "Nothingness" exists inside "Consciousness."

How is consciousness ever-present if I can cite moments where I am unconscious (Sleep)? If the "I AM's" purest form is void than is their an experience or an observer in that void? How is there no "on/off" switch for consciousness. When I go to sleep "I AM" is no longer there - only complete nothingness. The only reason that I can describe the experience is because I come back to consciousness. Thanks - appreciate your answers - this has been eating my brain :-)

No - I'm saying that sleep is the absence of experience. I only know of this experience in consciousness.

That's just the thing though. Consciousness is not in sleep (not that "I AM" aware of.) So it can be escaped. Am I missing something here?

Still nothing that satisfying - what I'm seeing is that the "I AM" is not all and that a pure "nothingness" exists, one that foresee-ably occurs after death.

Been a wild day. So many things swirling in my brain. Hope everyone had a great Sunday. I was thinking about consciousness and love and how it could conceivably make up all that is. Then I thought of sleep. From everything that I've observed - when I am out like a brick, I am not conscious or aware at all (duh right?) How does this fit into a paradigm where consciousness is all?

And you're saying that the absolute is "good." How is good not subjective? Why not just say that all things work towards the ABSOLUTE as opposed to the ABSOLUTE GOOD?

Bill W - I'm in AA. This question is a direct consequence of me observing multiple people and being asked to find God's will (or at least ask for it). You're in a unique position to offer some insight if you're also in the fellowship. Expand on anything you like. Leo This is where I disconnect. It sounds nice but WHY is all of my evil part of the absolute good? Where is there any evidence of this being the natural conclusion.

Leo - that response was fantastic. The analogy of there still being a devil really hammers home something that I've been struggling to put into words. Thank you. Is it really this black and white? What about gray areas where a small lie furthers the interests of multiple people and doesn't cross any major lines? A wife asking if she looks good in a dress or a person telling a small fib>