Eph75

And at the same time, that is the beauty of it - and why realizing letting go of what you think is "you" is so rewarding ?

Oh yes, what problems we experience are only symptoms of an underlying unability to relate to our emotional responses in a healthy way, paired with awareness of how we "tick". While addressing the symptoms individually and making space to breath so that we can address the underlying problem, just focusing on the symptoms becomes a game of whack-a-mole. There will always be another one, "bad" things just happen "to you" for "no apparent reason". Understanding your emotional responses - and raising awareness - is taking the rudder and becoming the captain of your own life, regardless of that meaning just being at peace or actively steering your ship towards an intentional destination. No more drifting asea, being a victim of ever shifting weather (circumstances). Pausing in the moment, when these kind of emotions appear and switching into being that objective self-observer gives you some time and space to change the meaning of what is happening - the symptom - as well as curiously explore how we think ourselves into such "traps" - which is the underlying problem that needs to be addressed. It is somewhat embarrasing that often we make-believe up those traps all by ourselves, all mental constructs that have no real world connection, all coming from a habit of toxic/negative thought patterns.

@Dylan Page Yes, it seems that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance, the discrepancy between not being attracted to interacting with the people you have the opportunity to interact with and the feeling that should must/should interact with people in order to fulfill whatever cultural or personal expectations you place on yourself. As @purerogue says, your needs/desires/expectations trigger emotional responses that makes us feel the way we do, in your case, bad. What would be good to explore is what lies beneath that emotion, why is it important. Don't accept the first top-of-the-head answer as is likely that is of the ego which just confirms that what you are feeling that "makes sense". We're awesome at tricking ourselves. Dig deeper. In the end what you will need to do is to distance yourself from your emotions in such a way that you can observe them from a sober more objective perspective, in such a sense that you place your emotions and your ego "over there" and you - your conscious self - remain "over here", observing, contemplating that which is not working for you without engaging with the feeling. That's not the easiest thing to do, it takes practice. Being alone and being lonely are not the same thing. Faulty expectations or desires can mix them up, making being alone being a bad thing, while holding the ability to be alone - we all and up alone at times - is a strength and is fundamental to being able to be at peace.

That is just a step towards growing personal responsibility. What is the sense of being defensive against a mistake you made yourself. Not being able to accept and stand behind ones mistakes is a limitation of the ego. It is not directly connected to low self-esteem but that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't suffer from low self-esteem. It is a good thing, embrace it. If you worry about low self-esteem, process that independently of this.

@Parththakkar12 Yes, all that makes perfect sense to me We're essentially just describing the same thing from two different perspectives, via different words.

@Parththakkar12 Oh sorry, what I meant with "how is that working for you" was, in what ways have you empirically experienced law attraction from a magic point-of-view, having it it fulfill your desires what has it brought you that was not related to conscious or subconscious actions taken by you. Of course, subconscious actions, being subconscious would probably appear magical.

@Parththakkar12 That's assuming that miracles/magic ever has happened or could happen. While being open to the possibility, and I'd love to be positively surprised, until then, that remains fantasy to me. If law of attraction has proven works for you on that level, good for you I'm pragmatic when it comes to these things. Tell me, how is that working out for you?

What I do believe is that when you want something, coming from a positive mental space, you affect your behavior in ways that are both conscious but also unconscious and the results from that is that things seemingly unfold in a positive manner. If you just imagine wanting something and you sit on a chair in your home, doing nothing, nothing much else than happenstance will happen. Beware of confirmation bias, imagine something and when it happens you confirm "law of attaction" working, while you have more times doing the same without effect. Shit happens But if you change your mindset, from a positive place, you change your behaviors and take actions that from a cause-and-effect POV unfolds series of events that produces results that give a return of your investment over time. Law of attraction without actually doing anything is quite a bit like meditating expecting it to fix all, it's just dreaming that something will magically appear out of nowhere. Know what you want, take small conscious actions - unconscious actions and effects will follow - and it is quite likely that you will get what you want - law of attraction. Once things start to happen, stuff tend to happen in sequence. Wanting - needing - having. Consider the differences and how they might affect your behavior and how they may be related to you mental/emotional state.

No, I'm saying that I was ready to throw everything out, I was miserable, but I changed, my mind changed and it saw that the problem was in me. I entered spirituality from self-actualization, it's a natural progression, but I started with self-actualization because my life was not working for me, I had myself stuck in a very, very long depression and my self-esteem was completely shattered. A lot of us are not so different, at all, we're at different stages of our developmental growth. I know that it doesn't make sense that's because you need to have that insight first. How do you "tell" someone what they're lacking, in such a way that they get that insight. You can't The only thing you can do is to show that there is light on the other end of that tunnel, but it's not easy to get there, it will take a lot of work. But it is worth it. Just remember that you have to throw everything you think you know and hold true out the door in order to allow yourself to see anew. A lot of people end up "here" due to crisis. I had multiple. Personal/relationship crumbling, work was killing me and then my niece committed suicide. There was not one single point at which I suddenly realized that my way of being no longer worked for me. It was over a period of a couple of years, where these event unfolded in sequence. Consider this, if you are looking for something, what is it inside you that resist taking in what may be your own salvation? The kick in the nuts is that it's all deceptively simple... in retrospect.

So true, working multiple approaches at the same time enhances the likelihood of success outcome.

@Parththakkar12 While dying is OK, i.e. not a thing to fear, I don't have any rush in leaving this world I will enjoy my moments until that time has come. That's where practicality differ, dying is not practical in this bodily existence. Altered psychological/emotional perspectives are very much practical for reducing suffering and enhancing enjoyment whilst spending time in this bodily existence. I just enjoy a continuously increasing sober perspective of my own illusion, trying to absorb right now. The paradigm shift isn't towards being alone. The shift is from desire to not desire - with the optional having. Our actual needs are less than we think. Our desires are enormous. When we can look past our desires, our needs may - and most often will - show up already fulfilled. The difficulty is to let go and open up to that shift.

@Parththakkar12 It's all in our imagination, all made up by the mind. We don't "need" to a thing, but we can "choose" to have anything. It's the discrepancy between the need/demand for a relationship and the lack of supply of a relationship that creates that suffering. Without the need, there's room for a relationship to "happen". If it does, that's OK, if it don't that's OK. What we previously "wanted" we might now choose not to have, for the simple reason that when the "need" goes away, it may no longer be desirable, it looses some attraction, it has no hold on you anymore. Also consider how lack of neediness unconsciously affects our behavior, we are far more likely to be our real selves when not trying to achieve a underlying need.

Although, insights changes the relationship to those very emotions and desires/needs. Where there was a need to have relationships, the need changes into the ability to choose to have relationships. The same thing goes for everything else that you might desire. You experience a separation between you and your desires, emotions and responses and actions. That very distance makes you see those things in a more objective way and their meaning completely changes.

The responsibility goes as far as doing what you do with as much clarity as you can to avoid unnecessary misinterpretation and suffering. If you were to take responsibility over everyone fully understanding what you are trying to relay - or - responsibility over how someone may misuse the information you are relaying, then you are best of shutting down and not speaking to anyone ever again. We're living in a world where we point fingers at everyone and everything, do anything to shift personal responsibility onto others, this being one of those situations. A lot of the content is more straight forward than it might seem, that is, once you understand it, and when you understand it you also see that there's a veil of mysticism upheld around it all. And with all honesty, the videos would be rather boring to watch if they were as pragmatic and as factual as they could be. While this mysticism does force you to bake your own noodle until you are able to wrap your mind around it by yourself, which also happen to be the most powerful method of learning - instead of blindly accepting and regurgitation conceptualization, it does leave a lot of room for whatever unhealthy misinterpretation the viewers can make up for themselves. For someone that is on this journey for spiritual growth, this works very well. For someone that has some form/-s of mental illnesses who try to look for something that makes him/her feel better, these people are likely to misinterpret this stuff just as much as they have misinterpreted life in general, which is what got them into their psychological mess in the first place. It's a bit like Russian roulette. Personally I do think that I have great responsibility that extends beyond "me", responsibility in the form that I need to choose my path, my actions and interactions with others in such a way that I do what I can to help remove or ease confusion and suffering in the whole. But I don't assume responsibility for what other people choose to do as a result, ultimately we are responsible only for our own person and actions.

Meditation can be a useful tool anywhere in the pyramid of basic needs, but it becomes particularly useful and maybe even required when moving past the four first stages which is more holding you back than allowing you to grow into your full potential. Mind you that meditation can come in different forms, for example a contemplative walk paying attention to and exploring your thoughts is a form of meditation. Because of the fact that you have basic needs that have not been covered, you need to put in the work, identify where you are stuck and find ways to get unstuck. Having issues with belongings, materialism doesn't mean that you should buy everything that you ever wanted as a solution. Having problems with needing friends doesn't necessarily mean that you have to pursue friends at all cost. Having need for a relationship or a family doesn't necessarily mean that you should sacrifice yourself for someone else in order to be accepted by a partner. Thinking it is that easy is a trap! It would be ironical if it was that easy right? The paradox is that one you overcome your desire - which causes the suffering - it is ridiculously simple. But that's just in retrospect. Meditation is a complement to whatever other processing you do simultaneously. Don't expect meditation alone to "fix you". Sure, it could, but it's more likely comparable with going to a psychiatrist asking him/her to fix you, lean back and not do the job. Psychiatrists don't fix people, they help people fix themselves, so there has to be intrinsic motivation to put in the effort to "fix yourself". The really funny part with this place is that people lacking basic needs try to take shortcuts to self-actualization, by-passing and overlooking the basic needs. No can do! It's a staircase, you have to start with the first step and then slowly ascend it. There will be stagnation. There is likely to be regression. But with diligence there will be results. Forget about instant gratification, this is a life long journey that never ends.

Lucky thing the critisism is only imagination I do think that with all the mental illness and intrinsic toxicity on the forum, a lot of posts could be more helpful towards the cognitive state in whomever asks questions are at. To someone that is far from having insights, people who are already seriously confused and suffering, getting the profound insight joke treatment/approach can be harmful. A lot of people give shine to being insightful in one thread but show serious mental issues/illness in the next asking really trivial questions from a conscionsness perspective. People probably try to live up to an image of being something they're not. Touche!

What if you try looking at it from a psychologial perspective, and not from a stance where it is about physical pain of or destruction of the you-body. Emotions, perspectives, anything that may be psychologically harmful completely changes meaning. E.g. all the suffering or toxicity you see people having on this forum. It's all in your head. Do you have to detach from the idea of living within that imagination? No you don't, it is up to you. Word-play? Maybe. Have you had an insight, sure. If not, maybe just another dogma is at play. It is just imagination that it "should matter". It doesn't. It just is.

@Svartsaft Ironically, while what you say is true, you too are desperately seeking answers. But there are no easy nor quick fixes. Essentially it is letting go of all you know and find something new. How do you let go of the idea that you are alone? The way that happens is not from the advice of a forum post. It takes active committment over a long period of time. Also it is not for everyone, some just don't seem to be able to let go of whatever it is that got its hold on them. Meditation too is not a fix all solution. @bejapuskas Yes, but it can also be and is often a crutch to lean on. We need to be able stand by ourselves, only then we can stand beside someone else, a partner, in a relationship, with true grace.

Yes, anxiety is your friend, it tells you what you should do, which decisions are right (they are the difficult ones) and in working on that you grow. But we learn to run away when anxiety shows up, we crawl back into our safe shells and we take the easy way out, we choose the comfortable safe decisions that we know we already can handle abd therefore ensure stagnation in growth. Learn to love anxiety, redefine it in your mind to being a growth possibility and a lot of positive things will start to happen seeminly without any effort. Realizing this also makes you realize that the struggle against what you intuitively know is right is an inexhaustible source for suffering and stands for the most negative energy/effort spent achieveing nothing at all.

@Tiny Nietzsche I think that rethinking those questions might help you, really stay with them for some time. Love needs no conditions, you don't need anything to love and you don't have to be someone particular to recieve love. The second answer also asks for more contemplation, are you changing yourself out of fear of not being accepted? Do you have to change in order for her to love you? What was it that attracted her in the first place, and why change from it? Do you love yourself as is? Why is something - even if it risk causing you to loose youself or parts of yourself - better than nothing? Not having a partner, is that equivalent to having nothing? Why is there a strong attachment to the idea of being in a relationship? What is causing that attachment? What do you need to change/shift in yourself in order to accept that you have to power to choose to want without feeling a need to do. Within the answers to these questions lies the "hole" that you are trying to fill with extrinsic things. You need to find it and see that you have made that hole up by youself, and by yourself you can unimagine it, through understanding and acceptance. I sense that you have some answers already. I think you just have to stay with it for some time and try seeing clearly, past the "need" part. We don't "need" anything, well almost.. Food, water, shelter and peace of mind. From there we can choose to have things, when those thing enriches our experience, without dark shadows or negative side-effects.

Infatuation. There is a difference between wanting to be with someone and needing someone. When wanting someone it is because you "can" but you are still "you" and you preserve your own autonomous self. When needing someone you are fulfilling some inherent need that you have. It is not really connected to the other individual but something in you that you try to fill, some gaping hole, something that make you feel better for that moment, e.g. low self-esteem is a classic one, getting acknowledgement by someone accepting you and you turn to being someone that keeps getting accepted. As hard as it is not to get fully absorbed by that needing, it is the basis for unhealthy relationships. Being aware that it is happening is great, then you can work on it in an earlier stage, instead of finding this out much later when the relationship has passed the infatuation stage and gone toxic. What need in you are you fulfilling? What makes you being you less prioritized than being what her needs you to be?

Ok, we are down to defining what we mean with "do nothing". If action changes how you relate, which leads to not getting attached, is that then doing nothing? Only if you set out to detach, is that "not doing nothing" ? If you work on your emotions, e.g. choose not to react, and that affects attachments, is that nothing as long as you are not aware that it will change the dynamics of everything. Any action is self-biased. There is an underlying purpose. So that's not doing nothing. If you don't agree, then it is almost as if doing things without awareness of consequences, then it is "ok" but as soon as you cognition abilities can discern a positive outcome, that becomes something and it is "wrong" ? When I see doing nothing, then it is meditation, minimizing thought, take no actions (basically eat, shit, meditate), sit in cave or whatever. Not very practical. Otherwise it is just accepting what is and do no action that changes anything that you can possibly percieve. Becomes very close to living in unawareness. Maybe I'm just trying to misunderstand ? that is a possibility. In that sense, every action is an attachment to an idea. Gets into splitting hairs and very, very subjective.

Yet, doing nothing will get you nowhere. You have to do something to get to a point where you realize that doing nothing could be a path. It is like saying that you don't have to awaken because you are already "there". The one not awake does not see it, so that is not so. Quite counter-productive.

With that it sounds like working on ones attachments would be a bad thing, as it is still attachment to another "idea". That may be so but also the foundation of both developmental and spiritual growth. Having a temporary attachment fueled by the insight that you have strong negative side-effect producing attachments and working on them, getting you to a point where you are more detached and live a more peaceful life without uneccesary suffering is still a positive thing for anyone that still need to operate in the reality that we all are inside. You can of course do nothing, accept all, continue to suffer and continue to cause suffering in others if you want, letting the ego run the show. But for most that is causing unhappy lives, even if we imagine it being just as it should be. From a tier 2 perspective in spiral dynamics all of those things make sense, the "whys" to what you mention are different. That does not mean that you can not detach from the emotional connection to, e.g. this is wrong and this is right, if you are in a tier 1 stage. But it is likely you do so with a dogma, replacing the one idea with another fueled by a new truth that produces a new "should" that you "must" live up to. When in fact you don't have to do anything - you still CAN do anything. There are different paths leading to the same place. Different paths can be easier or more difficult for different people. A lot of people here are addressing rather "simple" problems which imply not having gotten very far on the spiritual journey. Far from everyone is interested in a spiritual journey but only looking for understanding of why a certain thing is affecting them negatively and how to overcome. Seeing this from the far-spiritual perspective can point at detachment just being another attachment. Seeing this from the pragmatic world perspective, understanding of attachment actually can save people from suffering. With that said it is hard to know, maybe not where people are coming from, but where they are going and what they need to hear. Depending on the latter, offering advice that is the most helpful to that very person in that very stage of developmental growth he or she is in, so that he or she can continue the journey with less suffering is all that matters. Disregarding from this fact is yet another way of the ego to present a more elaborate solution that the other likely will not be able to understand and less likely will help with his or her current suffering or "blocking".