Eph75

@Spiritual Warfare Aren't these conversations hillarious? This too is a concept.

Yeah, psychology will take a piss on something to generate self-importance, raising self above some other or another group. Luckily we're on a forum that is about self-actualization and progressing through the deficiency stages where this phenomena exists, so that we don't get so much of it and more non-attached reasoning around people and phenomena

It's just a reflection, it's not about maturity. It's also very on point. You could ask about the desired outcome, but then again, it's rather obvious.

"My spiritual dick is bigger than your spiritual twat" and vice versa.

The average person is definitely driven by meaning, it's just a matter of where that meaning lies, it could be at the bottom of a bottle of booze, or surviving as a family, to being successful, making more money or self-actualizating. All of these are socially or self-applied meaning making.

@Optimal_Prime I'm not going to help you with resources as they're not as much help as one would think, and perhaps even the opposite if a preoccupation of desire to do things right occurs. The simplest way to achieve progress is to continue practicing. Practicing sustained focus. Practicing gently letting go of anything and everything that shows up. Passing the state where various and extremely fascinating and pleasent phenomena occur - not getting attached to them, nor getting attached to reaching this stage again as focusing on those phenomena breaks the progression to the next state. To reach equanimity, approach whatever shows up with equanimity and leave it be with what it is - distraction. Those phenomena being the greatest obstacle as they are very addictive, e.g. experiencing the roaring and ear deafening energy shooting up your spine and into your head. More pleasent than orgasm, something I got addicted to and got entangled with reproducing over and over again but in a forced way that eventually left long lasting headaches before I realized I'd become attached to the idea of replicating as if that was the gate towards the next state - and - that too must be let go of, only then, there's further. I don't know if this is helpful, as this likely shows up as "trivial" and "obvious", and most certainly do not point toward resources nor jargon or maps or "jhanas". Yet another paradoxical thing - it's so simple so that we construct a need to find what's complex with it, thus resources being the path forward. While, "Dropping" being the actual path.

@Scholar There's a subtle difference between meaningless and devoid of meaning. Devoid of inherent meaning means that the character walking this illusion has the freedom to create whatever meaning makes that walking "fun", and engagement can flow into whatever aligns with that, that moment, when it shows up being indicated. And when it's not, there is no thought nor "cost" connected to it. The paradox is that you are being free from the bondage of this illusion, not having to or needing to do anything. The freedom you gain from this is a non-attached stance that allows you to engage as seen fit in the moment without the costs attach otherwise. A choosing that can be the very same before and after inherent meaning falls away. The very essence of "before.. chop wood, carry water - after chop wood, carry water". While before and after in this example is the same, there is a qualitative different in the experiencing of, the meaning of the act, the way it is conducted, and the implications associated with it. It simple is, because, why not...

Of course, that's the nature of developmental stages and cognitive complexity evolving.

Of course, the manifestation would be different for different groups as there are different perspective on different developmental levels. This is meta, not content specific. Dem have their own insanities, they're just not the same.

As long as we stay with this being a shared phenomenon, which it is, it's a human phenomenon, and not something exclusive to Republicans. And it takes time. The opposite, censor perspective has already proven to not work and grows the opposition, those attempted to be censored, stronger. Might even be that Trump has manifested as impossible to critique based on there being a lot of misinterpretation, fueling the whole engine, making it immune to that which is fair critique. Human systems if anything is messy and should not be taken lightly men being meddle with.

@Hardkill Actually no, free speech as to the degree it fits into the law is needed. Starting to filter out what does not match own world view is not the way to go. We're already seeing that, and that alternative media will be the solution to maintain opposite perspectives. That doesn't mean that toxic BS and conspiracy thinking won't be in the mix, but what it will help people over time to think for themselves and train themselves to view things more critically than being spoon fed with whatever shows up within one's own ideological sphere. There is angled news on both sides. If you think Dem media is not angling, cutting and pasting and otherwise controlling to push the narrative that keeps the people they cater to entangle within that very sphere of ideology, you are in need of a rude awakening. Of course, that goes the Republican direction too. Pause emotions and just consume more diverse perspectives in a effort to try to see where those are coming from. The rude awakening will be, if able to handle letting go of biases, that those perspectives are equally valid based on the relative point from where that are created. They only become "bad" when enforcing a different frame of reference onto mismatching perspective, causing the categorization "bad" to occur. What ensues is emotion, frustration, hate and "they being retarded", also mind concocts catastrophy as the only and inevitable outcome as a result. Thus, pause, breath, be curious. You won't me infected by doing so, you might just be cured from the current infection that keep you stuck in this neither pleasent not constructive place of mind.

@Hardkill Turn it towards yourself and ask how the internet brain rot might have infected yourself, where irrational emotional responses is the go to strategy to reinstate a sense of rightness and superiority over that which you perceive as being absolutely wrong. This doesn't really have to do with Democrats or Republicans. It has to do with you. Therapy might be part of the solution, emotional training and management, stepping outside of the context of things and try look at thing in a less biased manner (albeit still subjectively biased). Maybe most importantly not to act on impulses. And, don't forget to breath. Meditation neatly fits into that mix. But then again, what really is you ego agenda in all of this/such "messiness"? That's not really a question you need to answer, but something to contemplate. And yet, you're not really interested on really working on that, are you? (another question not to answer) Just pause.

The experiential realization that everything is as it is and there is no need to change anything, that it's been perfect in that sense all along, that it (this) was here all along, and that there was and is no need to do anything. It's too simple to accept, and still, there's no apparent path to getting from here to nowhere because you're already there, i.e. here. The gateless gate you wanted to pass through was itself an illusion, the seeking was as false as anything else you attributed to what was right here in front of you. Yet, seemingly you have made it to a different place, a different facet of the same. The desire and need creates the seeking and the journey and enlightenment ends the journey by dissolving the questions that created the desires. Left is integrating with this and comfortably walking the all too apparent illusionary reality, and it not being you but it is all there is. Check my previous (longer) post, there is a reason it is being ignored because it's not attractive to ego. Ego playing BS games and the simplest answer of truth is not being accepted for what it is, truth, as the ego wants some elaborate spiritual fantasy concontion riddled with mumbo-jumbo words. Spirital bypassing, the fixation with that which appears spiritual to that you keep yourself lost in conceptualization rather than breaking free from it, realizing truth.

Doesn't matter if the question itself dissolves - which it does.

@Sugarcoat Ultimately this ego of ours is the only thing we have. You can shed layers that makes it easier to navigate and cope this reality of ours. Learn things like emotional management and life strategies. You can shift consciousness states, through meditation, taking drugs, but you'll slip right back into "this" simply because "this" is it. If the issue isn't "this" but how "this" is being experienced, what needs to shift is the paradigm by which you relate to "this". Therein lies enlightenment. First step is awakening within "this", the illusion or dream reality that is the mental projection of the ego itself. That projection is like viewing something through a skewed lense which adds all kinds of distortions adding false sensations and perceptions. Don't get distracted by all the nonsense going-ons this dreamy thing throws in your face. This forum and all the blind-leading-the-blind nonsense written from those who don't see themselves being part of that. Shift all your focas back onto yourself and question who you are, ask yourself "who am I" , without looking to find out who you are, because there won't be an answer, but rather verifing step by step who you're not. There's not much else you can do - enlightenment isn't a choice in that sense. It's a byproduct of relentless consistency and the shedding of that which desire enlightenment itself. You won't find the answer here, likely the opposite, structures and conceptualization that entrench your mind within that which you try to escape. Only when the paradigm shifts you can see that nothing moved. It's simply the focal length of the apparature watching that needs tweaking to see that "this" isn't good nor bad, not right not wrong, it simple is within the experience of experiencing. You shedding the skewed lens that allows you to experience this for what it is - nothing in particular. It's unspectacular in that sense.

@integral There is always choice, and responsibility might be not to say yes. To do what might be considered "right" out of guilt or obligation - is the absolute opposite of responsibility. What makes it more complex is that choice might not be to say no but to accept responsibly without guilt or obligation, ultimaty realizing a stance of wanting to show up - with no buts, no complaining, no regrets, embodying being a commitment to be someone that takes care of that someone. If you were there, this thread would not exist, so there are things to process here. Life is full of difficult choices. From how you frame it, you seem like you don't want this responsibility, and that you never consciously accepted the responsibility to begin with, rather more so slipped into it. If that's moderately correct, it more sounds like you have to learn to set boundaries and respect yourself first, which might mean saying "no", however difficult that that "no" might be. The worst option of all is the one where you fail to act out of responsibility and respect for yourself.

Long due karma

@Kid A The question becomes, what data drives the happiness index and how overall does that reflect the perception of a positive future prospect. The data seems to be coming from social support, income, health, freedom, generosity, and absence of corruption. These are relatively true for a place like Sweden. They don't reflect the trends around immigration and the perception of the Swede VS prospect of future. In terms of corruption index, Sweden has a negative trend and is dropping on the list, albeit still relatively high up. It also need to be taken into account that Sweden is a naive country that rely on each and everyone to act responsibly. Our reasoning is that we shouldn't have to tell people how to act, as we Swedes have a deeply rooted morale and self-regulation that prevent us some stepping outside of the norm. With the changing dynamics due to immigration, that kind of passive approach to maintaining Swedish values and morale isn't working, and Sweden needs to actively enforce a desired value base. The unresponsible and overly liberal immigration of decades of past is a great experiment with serious consequences that will continue to play out for a long time to come, and really has, is and will forever change Sweden at the core.

@Buck Edwards you should probably look inwards into why this obvious and simple decision needs input from others to be made. You give all the right reasons why the alternative may be better for you. What weight does other people's opinion in these very personal matters yet trivial matter have? Why might that be? How might your way of being be influenced by the same, let's call it (could be framed in different ways) , lack of self-confidence and a looking for external guidance or validation?

@jacknine119 This is normal, most everyone does it in one way or another. The reasons matter. And what the hold it has on you is of essence. Untilmately it's about self-esteem. We can say that it's the perception of having a or being relatively worth compared to others. If our self-esteem is low, there will be a need to equalize the difference. The lesser effective pursuit is the looking for external recognition to achieve this, or as some do, lift oneself by putting other down. For example, have you noticed some people constantly looking for problems with things and people, and putting these down rather than looking for how to help improving or solving problems? You would not achieve any change in the actual dynamics, but you get a false sense of self-worth by for example recognizing others mistakes or wrong doings, or what you make up supports others being less than they are. Using this as a sub-conscious strategy to lower others so that you feel better about yourself. Bullying needs to show up here, one of the most brutal and obvious expressions of low self-esteem by adopting a confident facade and forcefully abusing others to gain that false sense of worth, while actually internally having a very low worth and likely many other internal struggles. Another common manifestation is to always put others before yourself, to be a force of the good and the morally sound. Looking for others to recognize that you do good, so that you can, albeit, temporarily feel better about your own lack of worth. Yet another manifestation could be the building of status, pursuing a well paid job or otherwise monetary status, perhaps have a flashy or relative unusual car, clothes, accessories or style, making up that others look up to you. Essentially buying a sense of worth. A false sense of happiness, where happiness mose-so is about escaping low self-worth. Last example is relationships, having friends that are inclusive towards you, lifting your worth up, having friends so that others can think of you as being liked and accepted, or being able to have a romantic/life partner that acknologes to self not being some kind of failed person. There are many other manifestations of this. The problem is that your self-worth and your self-esteem will be owned and regulated by external factors, other people, the things you can buy, and so on. It's not sustainable. The more effective pursuit is towards unconditional self-love, absolute self-acceptance for who you are. Only then would that need to do/achieve things in the external world lose its power over your internal sense of self. Once that happen, you can still continue pursue a well paid job, driving a car that you like, and be for others who they need (and so on) , but you would be (more) emotionally non-attached to the outcomes of that interaction with the external. Internally, being (more) at peace with oneself. Of course more or less relatively/absolutely so. Key it to do what you said you did, to observe, become aware, inquire into it, with curiosity, continue to observe, and accept what shows up. That we observe with acceptance has a tendency to shift. The last thing low self-worth needs is having negative self-criticism poured fueling it. .. although that would be an effective and common way to continue to break it down, so that suffering increases, adding more urgency towards the emergence of self-love and self-acceptance.

It's a limiting perspective on what is - there can be "no seeking", interaction - and - figuring out how to walk this world. It's a no easy task. Integration, or rather "forward reintegration" into the world posts challenges that are as challenging as dissolving the question that initiated the separation itself. There's a push-and-pull that wants a "reversed reintegration" *with* the world. It can't really happen at that point where the separation has already occurred, the point of realization. Yet it presents confusion, a constant cognitive dissonance. Living within the paradox, until transcending the paradox. If it happens.?. ... The dissolvement of the question. No more questions to be asked. No more answers to be needed. No one to need searching. And no more *need* to convince anyone of anything.

There's a difference between seeking and walking. Being without searching. Interacting without need for accomplishment. There being a foot in two worlds, being in the world but not being of the world. And, just, because why not?

If you don't seek, you will never find that the very thing that causes you to seek will dissolve as a result. That the seeking itself was a goose chase, but it had to be, to be able to make the question dissolve or evolve into nothing. Only when the question is nothing, the seeking of nothing ends. Until then, there's a seeking of something. The realization is, that it - the thing that was searched for - that which the question is supposed to unveil, was right here all that time, it just could not be seen. Seek and find that there was nothing to find. Only when that is experienced, that statement makes sense.

Ultimately writing posts like this is too blunt to allow for diggin down into the nuances of all of those statements, as our existing meaning making will make sense of what's there, force it into our existing frame of interpretation. Here, we're looking at reframing the way thoughts occur to us

@fopylo Perhaps you're making it too complicated, and within that too complicated picture that you have painted for yourself you have gotten lost in that picture, not finding the path forward. Consider that the path forward is not at all in that painting, but in that which compels you to paint in a certain way. That very thing that produces the thought that you feel compelled by and that which creates the sense of right and wrong, good and bad that keep you stuck. When you think about how you should get out of "your rut", what you are likely doing is reversing and repainting the same picture over and over again, defining that picture as ultimately true. But what you're doing is really shortcutting yourself right into the Cul de Sac, the dead end, that you've visited and keep revisiting over and over again. It's you maintaining status quo, but you've been there, you've been down that road, you know exactly where it ends... () Then, how do you choose a different road when you don't know how, and the only road that shows up before you it that one, your, road? Observation. Consider that you don't need to do anything else than observe the going-ons within you. Then asking yourself questions about what makes you think the way you do, where your answers seem preconceived and what's true and needed is unquestionable so. What was it that made you you? What defining moments were there in your earlier life that cause you to become who you are, that has the thoughts that occur to you occur. There is greater understanding to be found here, there are those defining moments in our lives when we decided "I don't want to be that" or "I need to do this to" in order to be, as we make up, successful in life. It's the writing of the script of who we are, that we hold unquestionably true. And it's not unquestionably true at all, in fact, it's all made up and there are specific reasons we subconsciously made it up and "wrote" that script in the shape we did. The only issue is that the script will prove itself not working, it's just a matter of time and to what degree it's creating a discrepancy in our minds. And yet we will keep adding more and more into the script, building an increasingly more complex one. That is, until a point that the script is proven to ourselves not working anymore and we either get stuck, or we reject parts of the script replacing it with something that works better, so that we can be more successful, in increasingly holistic ways. That script you don't choose to change. It changes by mere observation, making connections between our current manifestation and what events made us choose certain ways of being, generating insights into ourselves which in turn may create shifts that allows us to see what parts of the script that we need to let go of, being replaces by something new. This works in unpredictable ways, and logics do not apply as your logics is generated by your current script. For example, and this is just a provocative example, you may think that you want to stay ajour with the anime scene, buy that may be a compulsory thought generated by something in your internal script, making that unquestionably true and a result is that there is something else wrong inside the picture that you have painted, but it not being related to anime. It then makes you focus more on the rest, while continuing wanting for anime. What if the one thing that makes it compulsory is the thing that needs introspection into? What if that compulsory scrioting makes anime a conceptual must? Equally, you can say that you have scripting that create action towards the things that you compulsory do pursue. Driven by a specific behavior, judgment or lens, that you chose for some specific reason, albeit subconsciously so, in order to be able to be successful as you made up successful to be. Looking into this composition of who we are and gaining more understanding of what makes us have thoughts occur to us in a certain way "making you seem you" allows for creating some wiggleroom and freedom to have new thoughts occur, or old thoughts occur in slightly new ways, leading to the picture being drawn be somewhat different, where the predetermined Cul de Sac does not occur in the first place. There's no absolut true or right way of doing it. It's all about the process itself. What events might there have been in your earlier years where you made such choices about who you are, want to be, or don't want to be, that created the set of tools that are paining your current painting? Sit with this question. For hours, and scribble down what you come up with, and consider sharing, explaining and opening up for someone else to ask into what you make up being true. Suspend your judgment of whatever shows up. Query further into it. And while doing this, hold whatever comes up for you lightly (!) ... after all you are just making it up and it is likely to be proven untrue and needing to be replaced further down the path, so try not being too attached to the new truth emerging. Good luck my friend