Mason Riggle

A lot of great replies to this already. Practice is a way for organisms to hone self control, but don't conflate what organisms do with a 'you' who's doing it. It can be quite unsettling to begin to see everything as one continuous process, all happening together, with no one 'doing' any of it, but that too shall pass

@Someone here weird, I know. It just seems to me, that by arguing that 'Sam Harris is [anything other than your own mind] is to operate from a paradigm that isn't 'Idealism'. Maybe that's me being pedantic. Maybe im all in your head.

Is 'Harris' a 'separate, individuals consciousness' or no? Who's assuming what here?

"When illusions are all you have, the fact that it's an illusion makes little difference to your mind." Leo Gura

Why can't it be the case that Harris is only concerened with the relative, and not so much the absolute? And why does nobody here have a problem talking about Harris in the relative, as if he is a material person, with a material brain that is close minded, without jumping to, Sam Harris is me/God. Doesn't anyone here realize God? Such close mindedness from everyone here, stuck in this materialist paradigm. Don't you realize Harris' words are your words? You wrote everyhting Harris has ever published, the same way you recorded Leo's videos?? Leo has a whole video about why brains don't exist.. but has no problem talking about Harris as if Sam Harris's brain exists. Either all there is is Consciousness, and Harris is that, or Harris is correct.. If Harris insisted that 'Brains are made of neurons', this is no different than Leo saying, 'Harris is a materialist'. If Leo can disect Harris at the relative level, what's so bad about Harris dissecting consciousness at the relative level. Is Leo 'stuck in a materialist paradigm' too? Well.. Leo doesn't exist.

It's the same reason the center of the surface of a sphere is every point on it's surface.

@Someone here nice.

"..and they were alleging mostly that I was a Materialist, and that I'm somehow dogmatically opposed to the idea that mind might play some role in defining reality, or parts of it.. but that's just not true..." - Sam Harris

I am 100% certain that something seems to be happening, it's self evident.. but I could always be totally confused about what that something is. --------------------------------------- You could be dreaming right now. If you dream about me talking to you on a forum, does that prove that you're not dreaming this? No. I could be dreaming THIS right now. If I dream about you talking to me on a forum will that prove that I'm not dreaming this? No. How do you know you won't eventually awaken from the dream you are in now to discover that you're actually just a brain in a vat somewhere?? You don't. How do I know I won't eventually awaken from a dream I'm in now to discover that I'm actually just a brain in a vat somewhere?? I don't. But none of the seems to matter. My reality is always exactly how it seems, until it seems otherwise, in which case it's still exactly how it seems.

@AdeptusPsychonautica yes, it seems to me like there's a me talking to a you, and that's good enough for me.. but it's the 'seeming' that's foundational. Is this forum 'real' or does it just 'seem real'? If I can't tell the difference, which I can't, then there's no difference. ^this part seems to be missed by so many.

you shall find out which one happens. Do I want coffee or tea? I guess I'll know the answer the moment it occurs to me, and no sooner.

@KaRzual the only thing you ever do is 'be how you are being', and you are always doing this, effortlessly.

@KaRzual it seems that way. Could you 'not live your life'? What is there that you could do, that would be 'other than what you are already doing'?

@KaRzual this is annoyingly paradoxical stuff.. You want to know 'how to let go of control', and 'letting go of control' can (is within the infinite possibilities of infinity) happen, but it will happen if and only if, and when and only when it does, and none of that is 'up to you'. It's similar to looking at an image full of other hidden images.. and I say, 'do you see the cat?'.. and you say, no, how do I see it? There is nothing you can do to 'cause yourself to see it before you see it.'. You can discover it on your own, if and when you do.. or I could point it out, if and when I do.. neither are up to you.

@KaRzual 'I' is a thought occurring now, like a bubble occurring in a whirlpool. Notice too, that there really isn't even a 'whirlpool'.. there is just 'whirllpooling' that occurs in a river.. you can't show me a whirlpool without showing me the river. There is no 'whirlpool' that exists 'separate' from 'the river'. Similarly, there is no 'you' inside your organism somewhere. There is 'what your organism is doing', and sometimes what your organism does is produce the thought, 'I am doing this', without recognizing that that thought is just more of what it's automatically doing.

This is the whirlpool thinking it's swirling itself. Deciding is happening, but there's no 'you' who's doing it.

@KaRzual "It is always now. However much you feel you may need to plan for the future, to anticipate it, to mitigate risks, the reality of it is now. Now, this may sound trite, but it's the truth. It's not quite true as a matter of physics, in fact, there is no "now" when it comes to the entire universe… You can't talk of an event occurring simultaneously occurring here and at the same moment occurring in Andromeda. The truth is, "now" is not even well defined as a matter of neurology. Because we know that inputs to the brain come at different moments and that consciousness is built upon layers of inputs… whose timings have to be different. Our conscious awareness of the present moment is in some relevant sense already a memory. But as a matter of conscious experience, the reality of your life is always now." - Sam Harris

@KaRzual Sometimes the thought occurs 'I am doing this', but that is just more thought occurring. This is like a whirlpool suddenly thinking, 'I am swirling myself'. This would be a mistake. This language creates the illusion of a 'doer' who is doing what is being done... a 'swirler' of the whirlpool somewhere inside the whirlpool in addition to the swirling. I am happening. There's no one 'doing it'.

@KaRzual I like practicing mindfulness (present moment awareness). Practice staying very present. Practice noticing what is true Now.. notice the sensations you are feeling now. Notice what sounds you are hearing now. Notice what thoughts you are thinking now. This is what I mean by 'paying close attention to the present moment'. Notice that if you are thinking about the future, that is a thought occurring now. Notice that if you are thinking about the past, or remembering something, that is also just more thought occurring now. Notice that you have no idea what thought will occur to you next. What will you think next? You won't know until it arises. Recognize that everything, including your own thoughts, is simply happening, and you are becoming aware of it in each moment.

@KaRzual by recognizing you never had control. By simply paying close attention to the present moment, it can be noticed that your organism operates all by itself. It grows hair. It beats it's heart. It thinks thoughts.. and all of these things happen automatically. There is no 'you' hiding somewhere inside your organism controlling what your organism does. Notice that 'trying to be like yourself' and 'trying not to be like yourself' would both be 'what you are doing', which is 'being like yourself'. You just 'are' yourself, effortlessly, and you never have to try to do it. How hard are you trying to 'be you' right now? Not hard at all. You couldn't 'not be you' if you tried, because that would just be more 'you being you'. You don't have to 'let go' of control, because you don't have it. Control is an illusion.

I don't think this is something we all agree on. It's an assumption. Recognize that while it seems that we have bodies and that we interact with a physical plane of existence', it's possible to be totally confused about our experience... when we dream, it seems like 'we are interacting with a physical plane of existence' as well. My whole life could be a simulation, or an illusion, or a hallucination. I could be a brain in a vat, dreaming all of THIS right now. How could I know? What dream could someone who is dreaming have that would show them it's not a dream? If a character in your dream was trying to convince you that they are really interacting with you in a physical plane of existence.. and in the dream they showed you an apple, and pointed to all manner of physical things and interactions as proof of the 'realness' of the dream. that would all be possible within the dream, and you still couldn't know that your 'evidence that it's not a dream' isn't just 'more dream'.

@Hello from Russia society basically operates at the level of the Status Quo.. any movement away from the Status Quo is met with resistance,.. so whether or not I meet societies standards for 'sexual value' isn't up to me, it's up to society.. and when you push against these 'societal norms', society pushes back..

Dreams are just weird, man. Last night I dreamt I accidentally chopped off most of my thumb and half of 1 finger in a lawnmower, and had them sewn back on.. what could it possibly mean?!!?!?!?!?!?

@Javfly33 'real' and 'imagined' are the same thing. The past 'really exists' now, because it imaginarily exists now. real/imaginary is a duality that can be transcended to Real, with a capital R. (or Imaginary, with a capital I, but it's the same as Real) Is this forum 'real' or 'imaginary'? This is like asking if you want 6 donuts, or half a dozen.

Recognize that the inside of the cup and the outside of the cup seem like two separate things, but they are not.. they are both (plural) the cup (singular). You (singular) are 'self and other' (plural). It's all you. When you have a dream at night about your neighbor, when you are in the dream, it seems like the characters in your dream are having an experience which you are not experiencing, but do you suppose they really are? While you are dreaming it seems so, but when you wake up, you realize it was all you.