Raze

1. The far leftists were the ones saying they shouldn’t cancel the dem primary and Biden should be replaced because he’s too old, they were objectively right 2. The right doesn’t need to invent reasons to criticize Newsom, even many liberals in California hate him because of the states decline

Newsom only has 37% popularity

They shut down the primary, he couldn’t

I’m thinking Biden will drop out

@Leo Gura we want your thoughts on the debate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_DS89_lKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CidDVoHdmQ

I never said not prioritizing life is always wrong. In some cases it’s justified, I don’t believe it is in this case, but I even if it was it’s not prioritizing life.

No, I’m just tired of the claim Israel values “life” followed by justifying Israel specifically avoiding solutions that save lives. I believe I just had this argument with Vrubel a week or so ago. If you want to argue a move that sacrifices lives is worth it for other reasons, that’s fine, but you can’t turn around and say you value life above all else if you’re specifically advocating for a strategy that loses lives. A ceasefire would save lives, point blank, the lives of the hostages, the Gazans, the idf soldiers, and anyone who would die from a possible Lebanon conflict. If you say there shouldn’t be a ceasefire for various other reasons, whether those reasons are correct or not, that is not you valuing life above all else. If I was engaged in a firefight outside of your house, and you told me I’m risking your life by it, and I said that I will still do it because I have a different goal, even if I’m right about my goal, I’m choosing to not prioritize your life because I’m putting a different goal above protecting it.

- their charter no longer says that - Hamas offered a ceasefire in exchange for a state multiple times - Hamas doesn’t control the West Bank yet Israel still lets settlers have their way there - When Hamas took power in 2006 they offered a ceasefire right away, Israel tried to overthrow them then blockaded them - you support Netanyahu even though he purposefully empowered and funded Hamas So in summary you don’t value lives and prefer to sacrifice life for political aims. That’s fine, but don’t pretend otherwise. Military analysts are claiming Hamas is recruiting by the thousand and polls indicate Israel’s support has fallen world wide. Oct 7 didn’t achieve much for Hamas, but Israel’s violent response has however achieved a lot for them.

You said: ”You cannot allow a group to come in, murder and kidnap your populace, and then reward them with a ceasefire” That is objectively what Israel did to Gaza in its regular bombardments. They came, kill and arrest, declare a ceasefire and leave. They even give it a name “mowing the grass”. So even if the war ends up strengthening Hamas or another group, causes a wider war, and ends up killing far more Israelis you still support it. Ok… then don’t say you value life Yes it’s true they did that. What they also did was - keep Gaza in a blockade so strict 40% of the populace is unemployed and the majority of water sources are contaminated - continue expanding settlements in the West Bank and allowing settler violence to the point where 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children prior to Oct 7 - kill over 2,000 in a 2014 bombardment of Gaza so large the majority of Gazan children showed signs of PTSD - kill over 200 in a peaceful protest in 2018 where snipers targeted medics and journalists purposefully shooting knees off to create life changing injury Ok proof was a bad term, let’s say logic. The logic of a ceasefire - all hostages returned safely - stops or at least slows down the growing hatred of Israel worldwide - stops hezbollah attacks The logic of continuing the war - IDF spokesman himself said Hamas cannot be destroyed, they recruit from orphans so the more orphans created the more they can expand - Hezbollah continues rocket attacks and may cause an all out war with Israel - given Israel has only saved 7 hostages and killed at least 3 (probably 5 if you believe the released hostages) many of the other hostages will remain in captivity or be killed in the fighting - continued growth in anti Israel sentiment worldwide causing future extremism against Israel Given that almost every single other country in the UN, the majority of the US population, and a significant minority of Israelis also support the ceasefire, maybe it’s actually not that ridiculous. - I’m not equating them, Israel has killed easily 10x the amount of civilians as Hamas - the IDF are the ones blockading Gaza, they keep Gaza hostage - the Israel government funded Hamas, they are also responsible for them - Hamas isn’t in control of the West Bank, Hamas isn’t the obstacle here and yet, the conditions there are so brutal even some zionist Israelis and idf who visit come away shocked, since the war Israel is expanding settlements and settlers have killed hundreds.

Israel has done this to Gaza countless times. - it’s entirely possible this only strengthens Hamas based on the worlds reaction - what evidence do you have continuing the war creates long term peace where a ceasefire wouldn’t. If they go to war in Lebanon because of this will you continue this claim? - Israel’s attempts to show “strength” over and over are exactly what resulted in Oct 7. You’re just insisting Israel continue its now proven failed policies. On the other hand the last time Israel attempted peace with with Oslo accords got the PLO to eventually give up armed resistance. Again, what is your proof this is “ripping the bandaid off”, when IDF themselves are saying they can’t completely beat Hamas. Why will the “ripping the bandaid off” strategy work here now when it failed before. There were groups preceding Hamas Israel destroyed, they also destroyed Hamas entire leadership before. Yet here we are. The same reason Israel doesn’t just arrest everyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine 1. When Hamas sacrifices Palestinians, they use the same justification, a cold calculating decision 2. I already linked you a IDF leak saying they purposefully wait until the suspected militant leaves military operations and fire on their home 3. IDF have used human shields multiple times https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_palestinian_girl_as_a_human_shield_in_jenin https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_human_shields https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials/30483468.html

- there is 0 indication continuing the war “saves more lives”, Hamas and other extremist groups recruit from orphans of Israeli attacks, they will have far more recruits after this. The current conflict is risking a larger war with Hezbollah as they are firing at Israel until there is a ceasefire, this has already killed israelis and a full scale war will kill far more. Prior to the war and if it ends Hamas is stuck inside Gaza and can only fire small rockets which get intercepted almost every single time. They only became a major threat because Israel left Gaza unguarded and they broke out. - you aren’t considering what saves more lives, the war so far has killed or mutilated thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and hundreds in the West Bank. Those are lives as well. Then the ideology will spread and form a new potentially larger group which will commit similar or worse attacks on Israel, so the conflict would not have made Israel safer but rather less safe, similar to how their constant bombardments lead to the growth of Hamas The objective was to capture IDF and Israelis to trade for Palestinian prisoners. Israel chooses to order strikes that will kill civilians. See this information leaked to a israeli outlet from IDF: 1) since we both don’t know, let’s look at what the victims of Oct 7 say themselves 2) yes the rational is that rather than value life they seek death for political gain, not so different from hamas 1) the IDF already admitted it shot 3 hostages waving white flags 2) Hamas offered a ceasefire proposal, Israel rejected it, Israel offered a ceasefire proposal, Hamas accepted it, Israel rejected their own proposal 3) Not exactly, for one most countries have not done what Israel did to Gaza such as blockading them and regularly bombing them. These are considered war crimes by many international courts. Secondly Israel has already dropped more bombs in the small area of Gaza than dropped on London in all of ww2, and uses larger bombs and more unguided bombs than the USA does. 4) Netanyahu already set the precedent by agreeing to trade hundreds of Palestinian prisoners for 1 captured IDF soldier, and later funding Hamas himself. Arguably it was done again during the temporary ceasefire. Hamas did not ask for more, they are asking for an Israeli withdrawal, it makes no sense for them to agree to give the hostages back with no assurance Israel will stop attacking Gaza, they gain nothing otherwise. We know what gets hostages back reliably. A ceasefire. If Israel doesn’t want it you are prioritizing something else over hostages lives, point blank.

I just found out one of the rescued hostages confirmed Israeli air strikes killed 2 hostages, so they’ve killed at least 5. 1) do not claim israel and you prioritize life if you are arguing for the option which risks hostages lives over returning them, you are objectively prioritizing killing over their lives. A ceasefire would right away return them all, and if done earlier would have saved the ones killed, war operations has killed them and continues to risk their lives. If you support that for other reasons fine, but you do not value their lives above all else. 2) the IDF spokesperson already cast doubt on the idea of defeating Hamas, so if the war ends and Hamas isn’t defeated that will refute your point as Israel will have sacrificed hostages for nothing. By that logic, is Israel to blame for Oct 7 because they left the border unguarded and civilians near Gaza? No, and likewise Hamas is not to blame for this because Israel chose to strike civilians. If you launch a strike or attack, whatever the reasons are you are responsible for the result. No, it is a confirmed protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive It isn’t just anecdotal accounts, both survivors and idf are reporting it and a UN investigation claims to find evidence for it. Again, if Israel values life why were they firing on their own civilians?

1) After 8 months of conflict they only rescued 7 hostages (killing at least 3), on the other hand a ceasefire returned over 100 back safely. The hostage families themselves already said they want a ceasefire and don’t believe military operations will return them safely, so the IDF is not prioritizing Hostage safety and you aren’t if you support them, at least according to the hostage families (and basic reasoning frankly). 2) What is your evidence they minimized civilian casualties exactly? They killed over 200, how is that “minimizing” them, they weren’t forming a wall around them. If the focus is operations of getting the hostages back why have they killed between 15-30K civilians and only retrieved 7 hostages? So what is your opinion on the IDF firing on its own civilians? https://mondoweiss.net/2024/03/another-israeli-soldier-admits-to-implementing-the-hannibal-directive-on-october-7/

The big picture facts would be approval rating and polls, and it’s a mixed bag for Biden and that’s being generous.

https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/the-collapse-of-zionism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IqVDvnDEJU https://www.girlschase.com/content/dont-let-bad-rejection-ruin-your-night-out

But that’s a perfectly valid argument, accidents happen and the more you do it the more you increase odds of such an accident This is not true, gay male relationships report less domestic violence then Hetero and lesbian relationships because women are more likely to use violence on their partners