Raze

- the Knesset just voted against two states - how would they handle the separation between the West Bank and Gaza - how would they handle the settlements

Rsd tyler had a nice old lecture of the fundamentals of inner game https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SP1J_trjfvL5prESWKCIHZ6EVshQFrub/view?usp=sharing&t=14328 and a old RSD todd lecture on fundamentals of outer game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwyh596L41E&list=PLX4IzIItCFqb1yTDIa5S_NdDPNzbSoTru&index=1&pp=iAQB

Prior to Zionism, Palestinians and Jews had lived there in peace for centuries.

2 million people trapped in a location you will bomb until it is unlivable is way more genocidal than anything the Palestinians ever did. Just watch the videos I sent, I think you are oversimplifying Hamas’s behavior. I’m not saying they are a good influence or anything, but it’s not as simple as they are rabid animals.

So who is the genocidal one in this equation

So would you consider if orders are given specifically to target civilians that is terrorism?

Israel refused to respond to peace proposals or peaceful protests so they went for kamikaze actions to try and trap Israel into hurting itself and revive their cause, and it looks like it’s working. Netanyahu personally helped fund Hamas, I don’t buy that he thinks you can’t negotiate with them when he paid them. Giving them money while refusing to solve what motivates their cause is way riskier than trying to undercut their militancy with negotiations. Israel negotiated with the PLO who also used to attack them.

They aren’t actually negotiating, saying your rule is you will keep attacking until they are all dead is not a negotiation. Even pro Israel outlets are posting articles saying Netanyahu is purposefully sabotaging negotiations https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-810551 Israel has ignored many opportunities to negotiate with Hamas Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/1/22/how-israel-has-repeatedly-rejected-hamas-truce-offers https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/25/middleeast/hamas-officials-say-group-willing-to-disarm-if-palestinian-state-is-established-mime-intl/index.html - Israel’s ruling government party Likud has a charter that to this day calls for Israel control from the river to the sea, meaninf destruction of Palestine, should Palestinians refuse to negotiate with Israel and just declare them genocidal with no hope? That’s would mean truly endless conflict - the problem I have with this is there is evidence that they are purposefully using this designation for Hamas as an excuse to never resolve the conflict Wikileaks leaked a transcript from Israel’s then intelligence director Yadlin saying Israel’s finance minister states Eyewitnesses claim Netanyahu made similar comments Others have suggested Israel should have negotiated with Hamas such as George Soros, and former Israeli security service director Ami Ayalon. Notably they are pro two states whereas Likud members like Netanyahu aren’t.

Iran just gives them money and supplies. You think if that ended the Palestinians would just give up and do nothing? They’ve been resisting since long before Iran was involved.

Nothing about trying to negotiate with Hamas and giving Palestinians a political option necessarily puts Israelis at greater risk though. Labeling Hamas as purely bad actors to justify further military action just backs them into a corner and makes them more dangerous. Based on your hypothetical what the Israeli response would be is to lock that guy in his house and beat him up every day and refuse to let him out, then be shocked when he attacks. Don’t let him near you or your family sure, but don’t purposefully provoke him to the point where he has no option.

But why should we only believe that public statement and not the public statements on reconciliation or a ceasefire?

There are surely genocidal people inside Hamas but I think just painting the entire group as always pure evil and impossible to negotiate with is false and hurts chances for diplomacy. Here are short interviews with two historians who studied the history of Hamas, I think there is more nuanced to the group than that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pjo3bJPrd8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgIWm5Sw5Gc

Now that Noam Chomsky is paralyzed, Rudy seems to be the last person who ever debated him

1) Hamas has never attempted to genocide the Jews. You might say they would if they could, but I don’t see how you can point to their actions as proof they are genocidal, committing terrorism doesn’t mean a group is genocidal. And more importantly, where is anyone suggesting Hamas be put in a position where it would have a capability to do that? Also, like with all groups Hamas has different attitudes and factions that developed over time. It’s clear that Hamas became more extreme in response to Israeli violence and rejection of their diplomatic suggestions, I can give more detail on this if you don’t believe me. Basically violence towards them made them more extreme over time. 2) I didn’t say Hamas is absolved, I don’t follow what this is responding to. 3) I’m not ignoring it, I’m also saying strategically this operation makes Israel less safe. For one, a wider war between Hezbollah and Iran is now a risk, this is a greater threat than Hamas will ever be. Secondly, if inflicting violence on Gaza in response to attacks is what secures Israel for the future, why did Oct 7 even happen when Israel bombarded Gaza multiple times prior? Why were those acts of violence not stopping it? If you’re saying because they didn’t go all the way and fully destroy Hamas, to that I’ll point out it’s unclear if Hamas is going to be fully destroyed even with this attack, and the same conditions that gave rise to Hamas would still be here and in fact much worse, which would stand to reason would give rise to more violent groups. Hamas only had its current strength because the PLO had given up violence but failed to achieve any goals, so Palestinians turned to Hamas. If you look at Israel’s history, the clear pattern is violence begets violence. Even Hezbollah itself was spawned from the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. The two main adversaries it removed were Egypt and armed resistance from the PLO, and both happened thanks to diplomacy. I don’t see why now this would be any different.

I disagree. Their original charter had some language like that, but it was written by a small group that was under siege, and the founder said he isn’t against Jews as a group. Hamas has never targeted Jews outside of Palestine. They also replaced that charter with a new one that doesn’t call for the destruction of Israel. The only reason they were able to do that was because Israel removed guards from Gaza to help settlers in the west bank and didn’t pay attention to intel they got warning them. When the IDF is paying attention to Gaza all Hamas can do is fire rockets which rarley hit their target until they’re forced to stop due to Israel bombardment. That’s the thing, they put themselves in an impossible scenario. Israel was refusing to negotiate with Hamas while also propping them up, this left a growing population of 2 million blockaded inside Gaza, their access to clean water was running out, 40% were unemployed, the situation was getting worse and they had no way out. At the same time Israel was slowly expanding the violent occupation in the West Bank. This doomed Israel to face extremism from Palestinians who were backed into a corner. Apparently they thought the losses they did take were so minor it was worth absorbing. But as I said, they got sloppy and left Gaza unguarded. I understand negotiating a ceasefire before getting revenge militarily after Oct 7 would be political suicide, but this war has failed to retrieve the hostages and instead put Israel at huge safety risk by turning much of the world against them and making Palestinians even more desperate and extreme. They may still end up having to make a ceasefire deal with Hamas, which can potentially expand by recruiting the war orphans, or if they destroy Hamas, which may mean losing many more hostages, another extremist group could rise up and cause even more damage years down the line. At this point I think even Israelis are starting to realize this, according to polling 60% said they are ok with a ceasefire if it means the hostages come back. But Netanyahu can’t do it because Smotrich and Ben Gvir said if he does they’ll leave his coalition which would dissolve the government and force elections, and he would lose the elections and then be tried for corruption and go to prison. If safety and the hostages was the number 1 priority as insane as it sounds they’d have to do a ceasefire deal to get the hostages back right away, then they’d need to do a political solution to give Palestinians a path to a future to undercut Hamas. This is because the war effort risks hostage lives and is risking a wider war with Hezbollah and Iran which is a much larger safety risk than Hamas. Of course no one in the government would be willing to do that because it would be career suicide and ideologically they oppose it so it couldn’t happen. It would be like if after 9/11 Bush didn’t invade Iraq or Afghanistan. We know now that would have damaged the US much less, but he would become a pariah because they’d view it as relenting to the enemy. I’m not necessarily anti Zionist, I’m just against the way they went about doing it.

@hundreth would you consider the accounts from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqusa-96WLs and this https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/bf4mfymnmn4t1wyvdkx4h/Letter.pdf?rlkey=z3ekl4u9gtya2p33ek6ud2zet&e=1&dl=0 to be war crimes?

Just fap without porn then

Try the hardcore history podcast

Secular leaning Israelis are leaving the country and the right wing and orthodox have higher fertility, Israel will drift further right over time.

try metta meditation, Awakening the Spiritual Heart with Adyashanti, ifs therapy or mdma trauma release