Raze

A former British MI6 and diplomat who was stationed in Lebanon gives his analysis:

No, calling mainstream human rights organizations and Jewish intellectuals all antisemitic and dismissing them is textbook propaganda and single mindedness. Actually explain how what they say is antisemitic or wrong, just crying that I can’t appeal to authorities makes no sense. That’s like saying if experts on crime judge an act as criminal we shouldn’t consider their opinions because it’s appealing to authority. No it doesn’t. It does say if you die defending Muslims you will be rewarded, that doesn’t mean it justifies killing every non believer. Again, suicide is strictly forbidden, which is why suicide bombing is a relatively recent phenomenon.

That war killed 15K people. Later when they had a war with major foreign intervention which the US used as a proxy conflict, it killed 2-3 million

This is false, US gov officials admitted they actually were supplying islamists earlier than that to try and trigger a soviet invasion https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/ (Link with no pay wall) https://web.archive.org/web/20230322182509/https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/ https://www.democracynow.org/2001/10/22/how_the_us_baited_the_soviet

It’s not that simple. Suicide is strictly forbidden, the suicide bombing was justified by one extremist imam, but there was so much backlash in the Muslim world even Hamas stopped doing it. Independent analysis finds suicide bombings are motivated politically, also most of them just kill the attacker so odds are they just use it as an excuse to commit suicide. Nothing in Islam is inherently against America or Jews, America wasn’t discovered during islams founding and Jews were considered a protected class.

One thing to note is a lot of terrorism was actually a attempt to replicate of state tactics. For example Bin Laden said he was inspired to do 9/11 by witnessing bombings of a tower in Lebanon. A much older example would be that Natives only started scalping people after they started getting scalped by hunters when the government was paying for them. Former cia director here kind of implies we could see terrorists attempting to replicate something like the pager attack.

Osama bin Laden was wealthy and strategic. Most extremists aren’t. Also the US government has massive spying capabilities now and a huge internal security apparatus. It will be much harder to pull off another 9/11.

That’s wrong too

I’m talking about foreign policy, not domestic policy, if your house gets bombed you wouldn’t consider it less of an issue if the bomber was pro lgbtq

Is this the book we are discussing? https://www.amazon.com/Gaddafis-Harem-Story-Young-Abuses/dp/0802121721 What is the proof this is a real person or it’s a real account, as far as I know this is just what the journalist said. You are massively extrapolating the honor killing phenomenon, plenty of Muslim women come out publicly about being raped and their family supports them, or even if they don’t they don’t get killed. Some came out publicly about Isis for example. Yes I find it hard to believe he could rape literally thousands and not a single one comes out publicly, like seriously not even one out of one hundred? He isn’t in power anymore so it’s not like they can hurt them. How is it a conspiracy, if we are just going by a book literally anyone could write anything. Maybe she could get corroboration from some larger organization. Like I said it wouldn’t surprise me, dictators obviously do stuff like this, like Saddams sons, but that’s not proof.

how many countries overseas to it has China bombed in the last 100 years compared to the USA

This website has good book recommendations https://fivebooks.com/category/world/asia/middle-east/ I also recommend the great war for civilization by Robert Fisk

Yes, but it was in large part a reaction to western influence, Lawrence Wright wrote about this regarding Sayyid Qutub. Then the west made it even worse by funding the extremists themselves through wahabbists in Saudi Arabia and Mujahideen in Afghanistan. It was beyond stupid and it’s insane they doubled down on it by doing it again in Syria. They’ll probably try and do it again to with Iran.

I wouldn’t be shocked if he and his army engaged in rape but when numbers in the thousands start getting thrown around when the US establishment has a clear motive in wanting his reputation hurt it is suspicious. If a Palestinian journalist started reporting anonymous accounts of women claiming Netanyahu raped a hundred Palestinian women I wouldn’t believe it by default either. I didn’t post the IDF rape allegations in the thread until we started getting corroboration from mainstream outlets and a video.

https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/cold-approach-beginners-where-to-not-to-mass-approach.28444/ https://www.girlschase.com/content/discetion-reputation-and-boldness-when-picking-girls

Iraq wasn’t a hell hole, many actually traveled to it to study and it had a fairly low crime rate. Iraq was also a bulwark against Islamist extremism and a Iranian and Saudi Cold War, all things we are now seeing the consequences of which can be laid at the feet of the US toppling him. It’s not, anyone can fake or exaggerate a testimony. Whenever the US wants someone toppled the media is flooded with stories about how they are the devil incarnate. Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Doctors Without Borders investigated some claims made all over the media of Gadaffis military using systematic rape and said they didn’t find evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_rape_allegations And I don’t think they ever investigated claims Gadaffi personally raped thousands

If they don’t want to be blamed they can stop engaging in it. The US indirectly created ISIS by toppling Saddam and creating a vacuum for Al Queda to recruit. The US and Israel funneled millions worth of weaponry to rebels try and topple Assad yet many of those weapons ended up in the hands of terrorist groups who the US and Israel then used as justification for mass air strikes and bombings, then Assad not wanting to be toppled started gassing people and got Iran and Russia to enter and commit mass murder. And millions fled the country meaning Syria lost most of their critical economy. No honest look at this situation would conclude that it isn’t in large part the fault of foreign powers. If a country did 5% of this to Israel you would blame it for everything up to a Jew stubbing their toe. Yemen is an even worse example.

That isn’t evidence, it was one journalists interview with a anonymous girl claiming it. I read summaries of the book. I’m not denying he’s a monster, but some claims of his army weaponizing rape were dismissed for lack of evidence by various human rights groups.

Most of these modern conflicts were the result of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the west drawing lines throughout the Middle East. They had wars before, but they were smaller and less frequent. Western countries not intervening doesn’t mean they can’t engage in trade and commerce which assists development.

There actually isn’t solid evidence Gadaffi did such mass rapes. The US toppled Saddam it allowed Al Queda to take root there and lead to foreign fighters flooding into it and civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands. I don’t see how you can say their biggest issue wasn’t foreign intervention when it does that.

The Vietnamese did things that would make Al Queda blush. The biggest of these happened during the Korean War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_South_Korea If this was happening today everyone would be saying Asians were inherently violent terrorists and ideological possessed against the west and we just need to bomb them more.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Palestine were all way better places to live before they had their major foreign interventions. I find that more convincing then that all their societies just collectively decided to stop developing. It’s hard to develop when you are being bombed and sanctioned for, literally, decades.

Because you’re conflating longer periods of time with recent history. Yes the Middle East had less technological development than the west after the Islamic golden age and it wasn’t primarily because of western intervention, no one is arguing that. But in *recent* history there is a clear line of foreign intervention destabilizing the region and hurting its development. We have internal documents from 1958 where Eisenhower was concerned with a campaign of hatred against the west in the Middle East, and one of the largest western international bodies, National Security Council, looked into it and concluded the campaign was based on public perception the US was supporting repression and blocking development to exploit resources, and they also concluded this was correct but that it was necessary. And that was before the US replaced a secular leaning leader in Iran for oil which later inspired a Islamist revolt, before the US supported Wahhabism spreading from Saudi Arabia which inspired Islamist movements, before supporting Saddam Hussein when he committed genocide against Kurds and invaded Iran and then later toppled him creating a massive power vacuum, before Russia invaded Afghanistan and the US armed islamists, before the US, Russia, and Iran intervened in civil wars in Yemen, Sudan, and Syria making the conflicts 10x more violent, before the US sanctioned middle eastern countries crushing their economies etc. Muslim countries that had less foreign intervention generally are doing better, even though they often lack resources of middle eastern countries.