aurum

There is no contradiction. Development and “knowing better” is always relative. Feminists have a certain understanding of the world that is more developed than others, but still has room for growth. They still have ignorance.

I mean that when you are genuinely growing, you will adopt certain beliefs and behaviors that genuinely support your development at the time. Only for you burn out and discover the limitations of said beliefs / behaviors later, when you are ready to move on. Feminists are not “tricking” women. Tricking implies that they know better. They do not. What’s actually happening is that feminists are at a certain stage of development. And as such, they will advocate for the beliefs and behaviors that support that stage. That’s all. No trickery needed. Think ignorance, not malice.

It’s not trickery, it’s development. Development involves taking things too far.

Notice what makes you feel open, safe and soft. Follow that. Femininity doesn't come from control, it blossoms in the surrender of it.

@Judy2 I think you're not dysfunctional at all. I think you're sensing your femininity, but you haven't fully embraced it yet. In my experience, femininity doesn't truly unlock until it meets proper masculine containment. That's when it really comes alive.

You should not talk to men and women you are romantically interested in the same. There is a very distinct form of communication that happens with women. Don't think "I need to be more feminine". Think "I need to communicate as a man to a woman". It's masculine / feminine energy interacting. If you just go up and have a bunch of logical man-talk with a woman, of course that won't work. You're treating her like a man, when you should be treating her like a woman.

Women are not just in their masculine in the workplace. The vast majority struggle with their femininity throughout their whole day. It doesn’t just turn on or off. Some may be able to compartmentalize, but even compartmentalization is mostly compensation.

Good news is that you understand the problem. Now you just need action and to put yourself through the fire. You got this, go for it.

Women are often not in their feminine. Especially in the modern world. You probably just caught a taste of one that was. Femininity is an orientation, a way of being.

I think you're trying to describe femininity. That is obviously desirable.

@Tudo 100% cold approach. If you're shy, that's even better. Cold approach will ruthlessly punish any unintegrated shyness or passivity patterns you have. Which is actually what you want. I would also combine cold approach with leaning into the built-in social circle you have in med school. If you want a serious girlfriend, she is likely going to want you to have some sort of social circle. So even if the girls in your school have boyfriends, they can still be your friends and just be people you go out with. They can also introduce you to whatever single friends they might have. And it will just be good for increasing your overall social skills.

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Every accusation is a confession

Yup that's it. I'll add that "convincing" people usually involves logical debate. But logic isn't how she's judging you, she's judging you by feeling your frame. Additionally, logical debate sets a platonic "we're equals" frame. You're no longer a man or a woman interacting.

You'll never get it out of me

It was a good point. My point though is that you don't have to do that to maintain frame. Frame control is more about you staying aligned with truth than convincing her of truth.

It’s not necessary to bash women over the head with truth to assert your frame. The correct orientation is that she feels the solidity of your frame. Then her psyche surrenders in response.

Good, that tells you’re not interested in being some narcissist. But consider the following: 1) Frame control doesn’t mean you have to be rigid all the time or can’t change your mind 2) Truth is actually possible to grasp 3) Your self-doubt and fear could also be self-deception

Destroying her fantasies is not frame control.

Yes. Your frame can be aligned with reality or it can be deeply self-deceived. Obviously if you're into self-actualization, we aim for the former. It looks like you being grounded in truth and then simply holding your center. Remember that your job as the masculine is to hold the frame. Frame control = leadership. She needs this from you, otherwise she cannot surrender. There is no easy solution here. You must do years of introspection, contemplation and inner work. You don't necessarily need anything overly specific or formal. Introspection, contemplation, meditation. I like engaging with this forum to help clarify my thoughts. That's a very tricky thing to do. You've already found many good resources. I would spend less time reading books and more time engaging with women and contemplating about your experiences. One powerful experience with a woman will be worth more than reading 50 books.

Yes, but if we are talking on the whole, then the answer is no. A Stage Blue relationship will be rife with mechanical judgments, moralizing, suppression, lying, abuse and all manner of toxic, low development behavioral patterns. To think this is worse than Green is a huge sense-making error, and likely shows a bias against Green. One of the benefits of Green is that it cleans up a lot of this toxicity. The value of a vertical model like Spiral Dynamics is that it helps you avoid these kind of sense-making mistakes.

Stage Green relationships are not more dysfunctional than Blue or Orange. This is very wrong. They have their own issues, which create the push towards SD Green. You don't want to create such a backlash against Green that you forget it's more functional than what came before it.

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you're over casual sex, then just decide you're not going to do it. You don't need the PUA community or society's permission. Exert your mental autonomy.

This will be a very good test of the progressive worldview.

If you want more than friendship, then you need to end it. Only be friends with women who you choose to be friends with. Do not be friends with women when you are secretly hoping for more, but they've given no indication they are seriously interested in that. You are in control of the frame you set with women.