aurum

@Raptorsin7 No, I haven’t transcended “unjust” dating. But it is possible to transcend a lot of the bitterness relative to this topic. All relationships are based on meeting needs. To ask people to not be selective about who they date is the equivalent of asking them to enter into a relationship where their needs won’t get met. Which will never happen if both parties are relatively conscious. The good news is that pretty much anyone is capable of ending up in a relationship where they are relatively fulfilled and their needs are being met. There may be some rare outliers, like perhaps people with severe physical deformities. But this is such a low percentage of the population it’s not worth forming a world view around how unjust the dating world is. And even people in these extreme outlier examples can still find happiness,

My worry here is that this sets a potentially toxic “battle of the sexes” frame. If we believe that women are “punishing us” for essentially being better human beings, then maybe our problem is not women. But what we are men are defining as our “reward”. If our reward is sex as quickly and easily as possible, then that might be true. You’re better off looking like a player who she has no possible future with. But actually, if our reward is a deep, meaningful relationship and intimate experience that fulfills us, then it might be right to wait to have sex. It could actually make it “more special”. Not by suppressing anything, but by feeling into the natural timing of things and not forcing anything. For puas, their goal is as much sex as fast as possible. So of course this doesn’t interest them. But if guys weren’t in scarcity around sex, like a lot of women, then waiting isn’t a scary thing. You know it’s coming. So you want the full experience. Not just to get it in as soon as possible.

@blessedlion1993 I don’t think you had bad intentions. But most women are not going to feel great about having sex with a guy they just met and then leaving right after. Especially outside of a party context where something like that might be more acceptable. So you’re not an asshole. You just misread her perspective on this. I know she said “yes” when you asked to her leave, but that doesn’t she won’t feel bad about it later. Very unlikely she would impose and turn down your request.

Because all these videos are made for guys. The more you believe that women are out there looking for casual sex, the more you will be able to find it. It suits your needs to believe it. But Leo is right. Sure, women enjoy sex. And they might settle for casual sex at times. But really what most of them want is an intimate relationship, which is also where the sex becomes the most enjoyable for them.

This is a shitty thing for her to blame on you. Red flag IMO. Sure, maybe the situation is stressful and you could have acted better. But if she needs medication, there is something much deeper she is struggling with than “this guy I slept with once won’t be my boyfriend”. I think I’d release her into the wild in this case. I’m all for friends. But she already said she doesn’t want that. So probably best to just drop the whole thing and for both of you to find someone more compatible.

I’m sure there’s something to the g-spot. You can read anatomy books and learn all about that. In fact I’d recommend that. But that’s for OUTSIDE the bedroom to think about. When you’re in it, then you’ve got to forget about all that. And just be present. Sex is way, way more than just a scientific, surgical game of pressing the right physical buttons. Consider that there are tantric practitioners who can give their partners full-body energy orgasms without even touching them. So this obsession with trying to do everything right in terms of the physical is very limiting.

@Federico del pueblo It’s all about reading her and what she seems to be receptive too. If you’re attuned to her body, a lot of the time she won’t need to say anything. Although words can certainly help and play a role as well. And the corollary to that is being attuned to your own body’s impulses. Attunement to her cues manifest as cues in your own. So you’re impulsive, but also hyper aware. From there anything is fair game. Faster, slower, deeper, shallower, circles, straight, harder, softer, whatever. It’s all on the table. You could potentially even just penetrate and sit there. Pick your tool and have at it.

Thanks!

I’m not really a fan of the first text you sent. But too late now I suppose. Controversial opinion: I would have no problem keeping her as friend. Having female friends is great. Guys who have been traumatized by “friend-zone” are so paranoid about this. But here’s the key. If you’re going to be her friend, ACTUALLY be her friend. By that I mean, don’t secretly be trying to hook up with her. Consciously and proactively make the decision for things to be platonic. The problem is, that’s probably not what you want. You’re going to say “sure, let’s be friends!” but secretly be resentful. Especially since it’s clear you obviously want something sexual with her and she is the one turning it down. So you’ve got to do one or the other. Either really lean into the friends thing and own it. OR go the other way, and tell her you’re not interested in being friends, you have plenty of those already. And then move on if that’s what she really wants.

And that’s fair enough. A lot of guys struggle with putting forward their intentions in a healthy way. I know I definitely have. So it’s good that we got some serious answers in this thread. But keep in mind that this does not necessarily mean you aren’t approaching girls like a starving dog. Being a starving dog that is very good at pretending it’s not starving is very different than being full. Most “nice guys” guys who struggle with putting their intentions forward are the former. Just something to consider.

Yes that’s all basically correct. It’s because of this system that we will never pay down the US debt. That’s my point. The monetary system needs to reformed to eliminate money created as interest-bearing debt.

Walking is best if it’s close. It’s the simplest. Otherwise uber or driving works fine. In fact, if you’re sober, driving girls home can be a good excuse to leave with them. But that’s only IF you know she already wants you to come with them. Otherwise they would much rather just get an Uber and avoid you. You don’t have to. But obviously that can help. The simpler the logistics, the best chance you guys will actually leave together. You can get a girl to ditch her friends and come with you. It’s possible. BUT in my experience, that’s a minority of cases. Girls who go out together like to stay together. They feel safer and it’s usually more fun for them. So you are better off just keeping the group together. Don’t be that guy trying to break up the party, keep the party alive. Then at the end, you and the girl you like can find some privacy if that’s what you want.

And you certainly don’t have to. I was just using my own experience as an example. Which was admittedly extreme. If you want that kind of volume, you may have to move. I would say being at a bar or club for at least an hour. More often than not I’d say it was longer than that. Maybe closer to 2-3 hours. How often are you going out solo vs with friends? No, you’d be surprised how common it is. How relaxed and social we are is extremely, extremely contextual. Your entire personality can flip on a dime. I still find myself in situations like that. Key is to find the circumstances that currently make you uncomfortable and see if you can still “find yourself” in them. 100% success in this is not needed.

@PurpleTree Occasionally that is necessary. But if that’s your only motivation, that’s not going to get you so far. You want to get to a point where socializing and going out a lot feels effortless. For instance, in the prime of my pickup days, I was out 7 nights a week. And while it did require pushing my comfort zone at times, it mostly just became automatic. I didn’t think “am I going to go out tonight?” I thought “where am I going out tonight?” One thought assumes the outcome. It was just obvious I would be going out. See if you can get to that point.

No we will never pay down the US national debt. Not under the current monetary system. The reason being is that banks actually lend money into existence. It doesn’t come from anywhere. Where would it come from? And so there is always more debt than money in the system. That’s the short version at least. I would do research on how money is created if you want to understand this.

This is you, still defending your fuck headedness. I’m not going to validate your victim narrative.

Sorry, I’m sticking my with opinion on this one. Going to have to disagree with @Roy. Look at the way you even worded your post. “Got thrown out of a bar for BEING MYSELF”. No one has ever been thrown out of a bar for being themselves. The world is not that harsh of a place. I’ve been out to a bar more times than I could ever count. I’ve done egregious things at many of them. I’ve been “myself” to the max. And yet I’ve only been kicked out of one bar in my entire life. Which I deserved, because I was in fact being a fuck head. And when I say fuck head, I’m being tongue in cheek. I really just mean someone acting without social grace. I know you’re just trying to push your comfort zone and grow. That’s commendable. I don’t think you’re bad for what happened. But good intentions doesn’t mean people are going to love what you’re doing. Here’s what I think: you are hurt that the people at this bar didn’t like and accept you. And to justify why you’re still lovable, you constructed this narrative about how you were victimized. Which is not to say the other actors in this story were saints either. Maybe they were being assholes or just drunk. Who knows. But no where in your story do you admit that you might be at fault or share some of the responsibility. And that’s just not the reality if you got kicked out of two bars in a short time period.

Then why are you asking for help on an online forum? Based on you asking that question, it sounds like you’re approaching girls like a starving dog. You could have asked anything. You could have asked “hey Leo, how do I build a deep connection with this girl?” Or “hey Leo, how do I make friends with her friends?”. Or “hey Leo, how do I work on viewing women I’m picking up as human beings and not just sexual objects?” But you didn’t ask any of those questions. You asked “can I fuck her in 5 minutes??”. I’m just saying, that probably says something about where your head is at. But my read could admittedly be off. Do you think you’re being a starving dog? I’m glad, you’re welcome.

Leo already said it pretty well. There is no one “appropriate way”, it’s always an in-the-moment judgment call. You can’t just blindly follow some rule. The hour or couple hours after the peak of the night, when people are starting to go home, is usually best. You can theoretically bring a girl home early in the night. But I generally wouldn’t count on it. Remember that just because you are ready to go home in 5 minutes of meeting her, does not mean she is. Most girls are going out to have fun. They want to dance. They want to talk with their friends. They want to get drunk. Or she could even be getting paid to stay later into the night (atmosphere model), which is more common in the VIP sections of big night clubs. Regardless, her agenda most likely does not involve leaving at 10pm with you. Unless you’ve structured it that way earlier. This is the problem. Why do you need to go for a pull right away? Slow your roll a bit.

Brother you need to learn social calibration and how to read cues better. Bars do not just kick people out. Notice how you’ve framed this whole situation as if you’ve done nothing wrong and the staff is just being unreasonable. That’s not what happened. Bars actually want people there. You pay them pay money. To get kicked out, you basically have to be a complete fuck head. Situations where people are unfairly kicked out are very rare. Consider that you actually are being a fuck head. Despite how you interpreted the situation.

Healing together ❤️

@halfknots Love this! Beautifully written. And now we know ???.

Of course, no one said otherwise. Love is a universal need. But saying “well white people need X too!” allows you to disregard historical / current injustices and frame the situation as if things are now totally equal and healed. This is a false frame. And it comes off as childish or even mildly narcissistic.

Well I don’t know him. But he’s certainly been more financially successful in business than I have. So I’m sure I could learn a lot from him in that area. For context, Owen has been around the self-help scene for a long time. Like since his mid 20’s. And he was a lot skinnier at one point, which is why guys are making comments.

@Striving for more Everyone has their weak spots. I’ve never struggled with weight so it is a bit bizarre when I see people who can’t stay lean. Seems so easy. But that’s my bias. Other things I find hard Owen would likely find laughably easy. If you’re expecting self-help gurus to be perfect, you’re going to be disappointed.