aurum

That would be my guess. He was on the campaign staff for RFK.

Maybe This debate is getting pretty abstract, as seems to happen a lot with you and I. That's because the two of you get under their skin. I'm definitely not saying right-wing ideology makes you more mature or desirable from a dating POV. But from how I conceptualize masculinity, yes. Or at least it's more exclusively masculine, like you said above.

Not in terms of worldview. The first group has a worldview that is more feminine. And that's because overall they're more developed, mature, integrated individuals that don't feel threatened by it. I disagree. It would come out even if politics weren't specifically being discussed. Yes and no. It is real masculinity. But it's just a less developed version. Yes you still would. Because right-wing ideology is more masculine. You don't need to be taught that it is.

It was always beyond the grasp of many of them. The younger generation just has the benefit of coasting off the development of previous generations. So in that sense it can be easier. Also, as Leo has been saying recently, you always have to account for larping. Being leftist can just be an identity or thing you do to fit in or feel cool when you’re younger. It doesn’t mean you really understand or appreciate why leftism matters and what it’s about.

They are certainly more stereotypically masculine than your average leftist, yes. And they offer a version of masculinity that is more relatable to younger guys because it is less mature, less developed. That’s the problem with the Dave Bautista ad that @Joshe posted. I can tell Dave is trying to relate to how a young dude would think. But the reality is that integrating leftism is just out of maturity range for a lot of these dudes. So even if they like Dave’s ad, fundamentally there is a mismatch in terms of values and development level. And no ad by itself can fix that.

Aubrey is being such a fool. The vaccine and anti-establishment nonsense destroyed this guy’s worldview.

Yes I'm sure. Your average young guy is going to value winning, domination, personal success, physical aggression, crushing your competition and feeling tough. This is all antithetical to the values of the left. The left wants social justice, equality and to curb people's ability to dominate. It takes some serious maturity as a guy to actually appreciate leftist values. Leftism just seems like it's for soft soy-boys when you're young. This is not just an issue of right-wingers winning the narrative war, this is a developmental issue.

That's the rub. What many of these young guys want is a toxic masculine role model. Because they themselves are somewhat immature, insecure and toxic. If you offer them a healthier version of masculinity, they will reject it.

If you don't like that idea, then I don't know what to tell you. The solution was to elect Kamala. Now we are in damage control territory. I'm you can find a way to help, but you need to be smart about it. Don't just start proposing crazy ideas. Be strategic and methodical. Make a plan. Probably best thing we can do right now is support the Dems in office. They are really the only ones now who have any ability to mitigate whatever is going to happen.

That would never work anyway. Certain groups always need more favor than others.

Just watched this as well. He's definitely right about a lot of young guys not wanting to feel like they're weak, soft or effeminate. The right-wing does give them masculinity, but generally a more toxic version of it. The left needs more role models young guys feel inspired toward. But also, even just recognizing who you should role model requires a level of maturity that some young guys don't have. So that's not a perfect solution either.

If your concern is media, you could start a left-wing podcast like Secular Talk or David Packman Show and help influence the narrative.

It's already too late. We needed to win the election and that didn't happen. At this point, you can find ways to support Dems and protest. But those are the only real options. Do not turn to violence, you will just make things worse by giving them excuses to come after dissidents.

Sure, me too. Except by that time, the MAGA disaster will already be in full in effect. Mistakes ain't free. Some are extremely costly.

That comment was mostly tongue-in cheek. It's not to do with hate. I want you guys to get it, but I can't force you either. You'll just have to make your mistakes.

You're on the shit-list.

The pain I'm describing is a gift. Someone should be so lucky to experience the pain of realizing they made a mistake. That's how you change.

At this point, I'm done trying to convince people. I'm just issuing warnings. You have been told time and time again, ad nasuem, why Trump is so bad. At some point you will understand what a mistake you made voting for him. When that happens, I hope you experience the pain of realizing what you did, but also eventually find forgiveness for yourself.

@Bernardo Carleial I'd say she's some combination of trauma + potential mental illness + SD Green group think. She can barely stay out of jail, let alone solve deep systemic problems.

Good lord, Giuliani is delusional. Self-deception never ceases to amaze me.

This election is definitely a test of America's level of development. Do the people choose to double down on ethnocentrism or evolve more into world-centrism? Those are the options on the table.

There's been some change, sure. But ethnocentrism still dominates a significant percentage of the population. It's possible Kamala loses just because American isn't ready for a woman of color to be president.

Side note - did anyone seeing that ad in the video hawking ivermectin? Wow. I just did a dive on the company, called quite literally, The Wellness Company. Textbook alternative health grift. And a presidential candidate is pushing this stuff.

Maybe. I don't buy that it's going to have a big impact. Many independents and moderates are going to be somewhat racist. That's the trouble with lefties assuming that racism should lose Trump the election. Racism wins you an election when most people are racist.

Absolutely not. Racists jokes mostly upset leftists who were never going to vote for Trump anyway.