Apparition of Jack

[Some spoilers for the movie "V for Vendetta" in this post, so if you haven't seen that movie but want to skip this post] The whole movie is basically textbook Green in my opinion, it's a story about a single anarchist-style vigilante taking down a toxic Blue/Red dictatorship by appealing to people's desire for freedom, openness, etc. I could choose basically any scene out of it to post here but I've decided with the letter scene because it's the one that impacted me, and I'm guessing a lot of other people, the most. (Some context: Evey, the girl reading the letter, is being imprisoned and threatened with execution, but she finds this other prisoner's letter which gives her strength) The whole theme of "appealing to humanity's better nature even during the darkest of circumstances" is very Green to me, and I think shows Green in one of its healthiest manifestations.

Division vs. Unity is a part of it too. The more I study the history of war, the more I realise people will find and excuse to fight even if things are going well and dandy (as was the case in the US in 2003 outside of the collective shock of 9/11.) So on top of all the other reasons people listed (money, need to release anger, etc.) it was also because the US empire simply hadn't had a "good war" for long enough and felt the need to start another. "The sword itself incites unto violence" and all that.

@LfcCharlie4 Just out of curiosity, how much of Marx's ideas are you familiar with? Do you know his ideas of alienation of labor, the circulation of capital, commodity fetishism, and so on? I agree with most of what you're saying, but I don't want you to dismiss Marx's ideas outright because some people take his ideas too far and turn it into an ideology ("Marxism")

@Forestluv Also it’s hard for them to dig up dirt on Biden that Trump himself hasn’t done 10x worse. Being such a devil is funnily enough proving a liability for Trump’s campaign.

So, since I haven't seen anyone else point this out (not just here but in general), I figured I'd explain something I've observed as a result of current events in the US. Basically, a lot of the cultural / racial / political tension happening right now is due to the fact that American identity is shifting and black (and other POC) Americans are finally, perhaps for the first time in history, claiming their place as a legitimate, respected cultural and social force in US society. While this was a process many decades in the making, I would say the "instigator" of all this was the election of Barack Obama not once but twice to the White House. What does the President of the US represent? In many ways, they represent the "prime" American; they represent the "best" qualities Americans like to see in themselves - respect, restraint, decisiveness, civility, being strong yet gentle, and so on. They occupy something of a spiritual position in the American psyche. It is also, of course, no coincidence that up until 2008, they had always been white (and also male, but that's for another time.) While white America has, to varying degrees, accepted other races in US society, and has even taken on board some of the cultural practices and ideas of non-white Americans, it was always this sort of "unspoken agreement" that black Americans, hispanic Americans etc. could have their music and food and unique culture, but white Americans would always be on top. The whitehood of the Presidency was only the manifestation of that. That all changed when Obama got into power. All of a sudden the highest office in the country - the very face of the country - was now occupied by a black man. Obviously at the time there was a lot of negative reaction to this, but overall most Americans went along with it because Obama seemed like a capable leader and they didn't really think to much of it beyond that. It was a cultural shift for sure, but the implications of it wouldn't fully be felt until later. And not only did he win once, but he won twice. This changed his presidency from a "random black aberration" in an otherwise white position, into a legitimate era of US politics. And Obama was legitimate in a lot of ways. He was, as I pointed out before, respectful, restrained, decisive (at times), civil, strong yet gentle, and so on. He embodied the very best of the American mindset, and yet.. he was black. Even to outwardly-liberal white Americans (and hell, even to black and other POC Americans), this felt very strange. The idea that the civil American mindset could be embodied and defined by a non-white person was nothing anyone was previously used to. It was in essence a collective shamanic trick where the highest "white" authority now became defined by a non-white face. And to wrap it all off, what I am arguing is that much of the cultural confusion going on today is just the delayed reaction to this fundamental shift in the US psyche that is still being integrated, in a sometimes-painful way. Every American today had nearly a decade of a non-white face leading the country and steering the ship of state, and people are just now getting used to that reality. It means that from now on, no one can ever say a black person or a Latino person or whomever else can't do this, or can't do that, or can't define this, or can't embody that, since now the entire nation knows that that is essentially horseshit. If a black person is just as capable of literally leading the country as any white person out there, what's to stop black (and other) people from defining business, and industry, and education, and engineering, and so on? The answer is of course nothing. The black American voice that has for centuries played second fiddle to the white American voice is now singing at the same volume and even in many ways leading the a capella. That's why these riots seem to be so heated (amongst a host of other reasons.) That's why BLM seems to be so powerful these days. The old ways of having whites on top and everyone else bellow are breaking down, and a truly multi-racial society is emerging in the process. Of course a lot of people, both whites and even some non-whites, will find this uncomfortable and react negatively towards it, but at this point the course has already been set. And that's not to say that everything will now be fine and dandy from now on, there's still clearly huge discrepancies to be addressed that'll take decades to fix, but the cultural momentum to really solve these issues now has a social legitimacy it never had in decades before. These are time of great change for the US, but it's all part of the evolutionary process to make the world more just, more fair, more free, and so on. The future holds many promises.

@Stenne Funnily enough, I consider Gordan Ramsay to be a fairly healthy masculine figure. He's commanding and in control when he has to be, but then able to be sensitive and vulnerable when he has to be too. He has a lot of energy and ambition and expects the best out of everyone, but he's also not needlessly cruel, doesn't get angry over nothing, etc. I think this video does a good job of highlighting both sides of him:

Something I just whipped up now:

@LfcCharlie4 A lot of college-educated leftists / communists hold to that worldview because it grants them the most individual power/survival. It's interesting to note that most communist revolutions in history were led by middle class / lower aristocrats, but not either the working class or upper class / higher aristocrats. This is because a middle class person will generally be educated enough to see the flaws in the system they live under (unlike a working class person) but at the same time not directly benefit from the system (the way an upper-class person would), and then not have any real meaningful political power to do anything about it, leaving them feeling frustrated and upset in the process. By aligning themselves with the communist worldview, not only do they find an outlet to correct the perceived wrongs of the world (wealth inequality, worker exploitation, etc.) but also an avenue to maximising their own power/survival, since any communist society will need well-educated people to lead it, but people who don't have the material or political interests in prevent a communist revolution in the first place. It's crazy how much survival dictates our behaviour. If you learn to grasp how deep the survival motivation goes, a lot of politics makes wayy more sense.

@Hello from Russia It's also interesting to note that you said you and your friends are from the CIS. I think life there is harder than it is in the West, and so a lot of vulnerable young people resort to escapism / extreme obsession to give them a sense of joy and purpose in life. I know a lot of the most extreme cases of sexualised cosplay, gamer culture etc. come from that area, since it's probably a good way to make money and if you come from a Siberian shithole town, what do you have to lose by being modest? lol

@Hello from Russia Extreme anime fans are weird, man. I'm a huge proponent of not judging people based on lifestyle choices and I see every weird quirk as just people's unique way of making sense of life, but when I get exposed to intense anime stuff I get a really weird vibe. I think you're right in saying that there's a lot of incel / shut-in types in the anime community. I think there's a lot of unresolved mental issues under the surface, and the extreme escapism of anime offers a never-ending source of distraction for young, messed up people to lose themselves in and avoid dealing with the struggles of their life.

I don't know the first thing about how cryptocurrencies work so this is just my random opinion, but I can't help but feel like they'll never break out of anything more than a "niche" role. It'll only ever be for hardcore libertarians / netizens / computer nerds / online drug dealers / etc. because otherwise it requires too much thought and effort for your average layperson to get into and doesn't have immediately obvious benefits. Not to mention just how entrenched "real" money is in the worlds of finance, government, etc. I just don't see the US government or JP Morgan adopting Bitcoin as a fundamental part of their platform.

@Scholar I mean, I'm still not really sure I get your point. Italians invented both the Roman Empire and Catholic Church, therefore they thrive under Blue structures? Ok, but what about French people in the Catholic Church? Or Greek citizens of Rome? etc. Not to mention that your example of the Roman Empire and Mafia had a lot of Red in them too. I really don't think what you're saying applies any more to Italians than it does to say Greek people, Lebanese, Tunisians, Iranians, etc. Italy is still a rather stage Blue society so obvious modern Italians are going to do well in Blue institutions, but that doesn't make them uniquely good at this or whatever. Again I still struggle to see the point you're trying to make.

@trenton A lot of conservatives deny systemic racism because it’s a threat to their worldview, and/or because they have a conscious (or more likely subconscious) interest in pretending it doesn’t exist. The conservative worldview is generally “if you want anything good in life, you have to put in the effort and earn it yourself.” There’s wisdom in this, but it obviously ignores the fact that for some people there’s going to be HUGE barriers to success no matter how much effort they put in. A black man trying to start a new science start up is going to face a lot of hurdles to achieving this just because he’s black for instance, but this then would force a conservative to admit that it’s not personal effort alone that determines how well off you are and that there’s greater social forces at play which they would then have to accept impact peoples lives, which is something they can’t yet process. Also, like Forestluv said, a lot of it has to do with stereotypes and social roles and all that. A white conservative might not feel racist because they never have openly hostile thoughts towards black people, but then when black people start to move out of “their role” (poorer, subservient, etc) they feel threatened and confused. If you highlight how black people are discriminated against in terms of housing, a conservative may subconsciously want to deflect this information because they subconsciously believe black people “deserve” to live in poorer and run-down housing. Not all conservatives are like this just FYI. But it is a trend.

That’s what makes Michael’s death so sad. He was well on his way to be a very influential and grounded voice in politics but he died before he could really reach his prime tbh. The world is poorer without him

I mean, pretty much any civilisation prior to 1950 would’ve had very strong stage Blue structures. All the empires and institutions of Arabia, Britain, China, Peru etc just as a few examples throughout history would’ve been primarily Blue. I don’t think Italy is particularly unique in creating code Blue institutions.

@Leo Gura You absolutely should, worst case scenario Sam considers you a weird new age weirdo and forgets about you, best case scenario he takes on Integral Theory, Spiral Dynamics etc on board and helps create Yellow-tier discourse in the American political scene.

@Epikur One thing I've noticed is that Trump has in recent months become a lot more conciliatory to facts that he doesn't like and has lost a lot of his "mojo" when it comes to being a stubborn prick. Look at his answer to whether the cases in the US are bad or not at around 1:05, he admits that what he said about it just being "burning embers" in regards to the level of new infection numbers could also include "flames" such as Florida. In previous years, he would've just outright denied that he even said such a thing in the first place. Of course, he then goes on another rant about how well the US is doing and how much the rest of the world sucks, so he's not exactly out of automatic-defense mode yet. I do think this crisis and the sheer inhuman pressure being put upon his low level of consciousness if forcing even him to evolve though, even if in just in small ways. EDIT: Just to add to this, look at how he's lost a lot of his aggressive masculine energy compared to how he used to operate. He's still in dominance mode but he knows, on some level, he doesn't have the same raw confidence he used to. He's looking for acceptance and trying to give cues to other people to affirm what he says more. Honestly, I think this covid situation has really spooked him and made him doubt his own ability to be in control of everything (not that he ever was, just that he believed he was.)

One thing I really like is finding little examples of two cultures that you wouldn't usually except to mix together coming together in a cool new hybrid culture. Here's an example of Jewish Ethiopians: It shows me that cultures are more inter-connected than we assume and that absolute borders between identities don't exist. There's thousands of these unique hidden cultures around the world that don't fall easily into more mainstream categories of identification.

Why would a disease prevent you from self-actualising? In fact, being made aware of our mortality is a very powerful tool for waking up and doing spiritual work if you use it correctly.

@Opo Interesting how the USA, EU and Chinese flags all have stars on them. Something about that symbol has universal appeal

I see absolutely nothing going wrong with this thread

I'm not so sure if it's as simple as good ventilation, but I do feel like there's some key bits of info that haven't been connected yet that'll help determine when / how it spreads and who is the most vulnerable (and therefore needs our protection / distancing the most.) For instance, my country has two major cities. Right now, one city is in a major lockdown due a huge spike in cases, but the other is more or less going about business as usual despite some obvious restrictions. And both were virus hotspots at the start of the outbreak, yet only one is seeing a major resurgence yet the other is still doing OK (for the time being anyway.) What's the differences between these two cities? I really have no idea. On paper both should be the same virus wise, yet the conditions in one city for some reason have caused a resurgence and not the conditions in the other. I'd like to know what those conditions are. Maybe the virus is airborne, and the first city was just unlucky enough that an airborne cluster broke out a second time. Whatever the case, I think you're right that there's a lot of competing egos as to how this virus spreads, and it'll take cooler heads and a willingness to see the conditions holistically in order to figure it out. I actually think we have a good chance of getting a handle on this thing within the next few months so long as minds are continuously put to work at figuring it out, and from then on it'll just be a matter of implementing our findings and abiding by the necessary restrictions until a vaccine or strong treatment is developed. At least I hope so.

@hyruga Trump may not be President by the time this is over, which hopefully means there’ll be less neocons in the White House. Who knows though.

What type are you? @tesla

It depends on what you mean by "revolutionary socialism." Socialism generally has a lot of Green (and some Orange) elements to it, so you'd be hard to find a socialist movement that doesn't at least in part adhere to Green values, but depending on the country that it's operating in / the time period its occuring etc. then you can have revolutionary socialism that extends Red all the way up to Green. Could you give some more specific examples of what you mean by revolutionary socialism?