arlin

Leo just a curious question. Have you ever experienced what depersonalization is?

I have been thinking about this a while. And i thought that it a an interesting question, you kniw? J wonder why i did not bother asking it before. Please don't throw spiritual stuff in here. I am just a 20 year old and i am not interested in the nature of reality or things like that. I say this because i know people here will come and say things like: "Wel the ego.." or "well god.." and such and such. I would like to discuss this topic as normal as possible, like we are friends having an interesting discussion and nt talk about abstract stuff. One answer could be "to just live" but i find this dissadisfying as it does not give meaning to my life.

This topic is very interesting, and i will follow this. Also, leo said that he would make another video about free will, but unfortunatly, that video never appears

Oh my god this is actually very good advice, thank you!!! Oh come one I like playing chess! I actually would like to learn more and take courses!

@Raw Nature What interests me is the emotional exercise. I will give it a try. This is what i want and what i know should and is for sure mine or waiting for me in some way. I know this. Of course i believe that, ahaha. Not to believe that i need help in certein times would be insane. Again, i am not that much "Spiritual", which i mean that i am not so much into the belief that i can give myself everything. I am human and humans need connection. I don't want to use spirituality like a justification to be alone. That would be insane. But now, you see the level i am at. And yes, your answers are beautiful but yes, i think i am more down to earth. @DefinitelyNotARobot i think this is more usefull to where i am at Uhm, this is a very interesting perspective. I find myself feeling grateful for what i have sometimes and it's weird because i never did it. Like i would be grateful for things i would not be grateful for before. For example the fact that i have 4 limbs. I could lookse 1, who knows. But then this brings up the fear that it could happen to me and it begins to be uncomfortable. Thank you, maybe i will even contemplate on the subject like you said if i really feel like it

Have you had a depressive and lost in life episode and how did you get out of it? What did you learn from it? Thanks.

So when i feel like everything is momentary and useless, and it will fade, how would it serve me to remember those things? How can i apply your suggestion in an actionable, concrete manner?

@Nahm @abrakamowse @Ero Nahm i think of spirituality as an investigation of what reality is on an existencial level. But i am just a beginner in self actualization with just 9 months of exprience. I dont want to take it too far, to investigate what i am on an existencial level would only do harm believe me. I am more interested in genuine, very concrete and applicable answers and point kf view that i can use when i feel lost, powerless or depressed occasionally. Not that doing spirituality would not help, but at this stage of my life i just dont need it and it would be harmfull. For example, just for example, one answer might be: "when you are depressed and lost, remember who you are and what brought you here. Also, seek help from others and find friends who really support you". So here it is, the kind of level i am at.

@abrakamowse that was it ahaha @Ero Does this apply to when you are depressed and suicidal (i am not). You see, what you say might be valid. But i can appreciate being when i am out taking a walk, but what if i am in such a dark space in my life? Then just being looses its significance immediatly. You can't just be in that. I completely agree with you that it does not have to be something spiritual, i understand.

I undertand. What about suffering then? Maybe you will answer that suffering is here to help you learn. But sometimes you know, when maybe you are in deep depression such that you see that that suffering is useless. But maybe this is another topic to discuss. @Raw Nature you speak in incredible complicate manner with tecnical terms. Although i am really interested in your point of view, i wonder if you will ever make it simpler for an idiot like me ahahahah

Hum, it might be. I already considered this. @Raw Nature interesting purpose. Uhm interesting, i will check it out! @Eph75 @wavydude

@wavydude i am going to do some research about ramana maharishi. Thank you

Uhmmm, those questions particularly the first part i found interesting. I understand that death makes life meaningfull, but, why am i here in the first place? Is it just random? Why do those questions bother me? Why do i need some special meaning to things? @Lento this is interesting. So i am part of the whole universe? To be fair, i feel quite limited and powerless. I don't need spiritual woo woo answers or answers that are far too much complicated fo me who am only 20 years old. Only practical down to earth answers. Otherswise everybody would just talk and conclude nothing.

@Hermaeus Mora interesting, thanks. So, what do you do in your life? Are you content with "just being"? The reason i did not want to tali about spirituality is that often those people only talk and have no actual experience of what they are saying. Have you questioned thise things before? And was this conclusion actually helpfull to you?

I had an episode of depersonalization days ago and it was a terror. Every choice i made was not mine, was made for me like an automat. I also had this tangible sense, that i did not exist, that the world was a sort of dream, and the past was an illusion. I lived in a present of hell, trapped in my body. Now that i am back to normal, and i resolved the situation, i wonder to myself: "If at a higher perspective there is no free will, then why live in the first place?" I mean, if the thoughts i think, choices, actions are not mine, then why be grateful for this journey in the first place? What does my journey mean? And i think about people in bad situations, and i get sad a little. So how is no free will a good thing then?

i Agree 100% Well, kinda like depersonalization i think.

@Chives99 basically, if i don't have a direct experience of this, all of what you said is just speculation and armchair philosophy. But i recognize this

@Serotoninluv @Inliytened1 @Nahm Really really beautifull explanations and insights that will serve in the future, when i will dive deep into spiritual work. Thank you guys all!!!!

@Nahm @arlin uhm, interesting. if i change the emotional feeling underlying it, maybe it would change it's meaning.

@Nahm Thanks So it's actually that you believe the thought that makes you suffer. It's kinda like the work from byron katie

@Ero I agree with you. Before i start doing those kind of deep work, i have to work on my life first. I am only 20 years old. How did you get past depersonalization? By the way, i entered this state NOT because i was working on spirituality in the first place.

I went on an episode of depersonalization/derealization not long ago where i felt like i literally did not exist as a identity or person. I learned about that that certain experiences are just your nervous system protecting you from overwhelming emotions. How long have you been in the self development journey before you decided to investigate on this existencial problems? You have to have a very solid foundation below your feel otherwhise when you go about those things the floor beneath you will dissapear and you will fall into the eternal void. I can guarantee that. Don't mess with spirituallity. We are not talking shit here. This is very serious stuff and if you don't know what you are doing you can only harm yourself. I am so glad i am out of it now, and i found a new sense of "Deserving" as i go on about life. I feel more self love now, i am able to love myself more. BUT , there is still work to be done for me. But i don't care. I did not mean to go into this experience, it happened for other reasons and i just did not knew what i was doing.

Oh man, the sensation i just could not stand it. I had severe panic attacks every 2 minutes at one point. Just being with myself and breathing felt like i was going to dissolve for ever. I am not going to repeat that experience and i am glad it ended. I am only 20 years old i am looking to gain freedom in my life. Spiritual work is far too much. (Event though this episode were not intended to be spiritual work). Yes you are right. There was an experience that something was choosing this, something was thinking this thoughts in reaction to those feelings, but i was not there. I mean, i was watching it all. I was so detatched was unbearable. I felt like my identity did not exist, everything that did exist was an eternal present moment of hell! You know what? I think you might actually be right. Hahaha. I was intentionally doing a process of deep connected breathing designed to bring up my past traumas so i could process them. Kind of holotropic breathwork but breathing with the nose. I did it 2 times a day. The "Resolve", looked like that: I stopped breathing, and i did not know how to deal with what i was experiencing. After days of constant panic attacks, being scared to even move out of my bed in the morning (How much scare i was because every movement felt detatched), i was sitting in my bed convinced i would never get myself back, then my body went into a process of grieving. Inside my mind i was calling myself in third person "Arlin where are you?". I was literally grieving my death. (This is the most insane experience i have ever gone through). I processed deep emotions not only that day, but days after that. I begun remembering who i was in the past and my journey with self actualization. As i processed my emotion, slowly i begun noticing that i could think my thoughts, and then finally, that i can decide how to move my body and that it's me that is doing it. I think i brought up severe traumas of the past. Loosing myself and finding it again, woke me up. I now am in contact with my anger, but i found a sense of self love and deserving. i feel it is lasting. I have not resolved all the traumas i feel. I think you might be very right. But in fact, i only get sad when i think that other people don't know about this stuff and are suffering. So then i think i don't deserve to live a joyfull life maybe? But those are belief systems that like you said, i should investigate and resolve further down my work. Wait, what do you actually mean? Could you elaborate on this further? thank you.

@Inliytened1 ah ok, i sort of understand this.

It s clear you are going in the wrong direction. Stop. What kind of work are you doing? Why? What do you want to reach? What kind of personal development basics have you got? How long since you are in this journey? Nobody who is a newbie has all those ego backlashes. It's clear that you don't know what you are doing, and you are sretching yourself too much because of that.