Danioover9000

@hundreth As @Merkabah Star stated, this is a news thread. So if this thread is white noise and virtue signaling to you, why involve yourself here and not help out the Israeli leadership?

@Nivsch And so? That's mostly white noise and virtue signaling. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll follow through on it. Just like how politicians lie on promises they cannot keep and execute on.

Putting aside this crocodile and eagle delusion spreading in this forum as traps, here's another interesting martial arts commentary and trap:

IMO the main problem with this framing is the assumption of one right and one wrong. Absolute right/wrong framing when most young people, young males especially, actually need a role modal like Wes Watson even if he's hyper stage orange in values, especially factoring in toxic social media sites, the rise of introverts and Incels and other mentally unwell and mentally stressed out young people. The advice and principles of Andrew Wilson's side of the panel, a bunch of Christian nationalists preaching conservative and traditional values don't get is their advice will mostly be put on hold and are too soon to implement for younger people trying to discover who they are, dealing with their internalities and externalities of problems in that young age gap. I feel like this whole situation is a cart before the horse in development, we actually need young people to aspire to Wes Watson and Andrew Tate first, get their materialistic desires sorted, their desires for more capital and sex sorted first, THEN we can talk about Christian, nationalistic, conservative values later after all that selfish desire is sorted out.

@zurew True in the context of arguing and debating, consistency logically is key. For example in a science versus religion debate, we have 2 arguers, one a Christian, the other a scientist and maybe atheist. Ok, so for argument consistency, the Christian's is morally consistent with the teachings of the Holy Bible and the church they represent, and the scientist should be morally consistent with their worldview. Great example of this is when Andrew Wilson was debating Destiny and NotSoErudite, and he argued onto her her moral contradictions of being a good Christian yet having an open marriage with her husband, therefore she has 2 moral frameworks, one Christian and one not Christian, and she spent so much time deflecting and dodging his questioning and debating. Basically it's a performative contradiction when you're say identified as a conservative but your belief system is mostly liberal see?

@undeather I think Vegans are just more annoying to talk to or debate on this issue, and must meat eaters have a more rhetoric advantage in that they don't become as emotional and triggered. I don't like the militant types of vegans arguing from a place of hubris, that optics turns most people of and tends to make the audience side with meat eaters. Another big issue, is that meat tastes way better than vegetables themselves, that's a huge specific issue for those eating. And finally it's this confusion with moral subjectivity and moral objectivity, and the Vegans/meat eaters not seeing it's deeply cultural and that actually slow changes have to happen slowly.

@Manusia Thanks for sharing your trip report!

@Javfly33 This is why measuring kits are very important with psychedelics...

@OBEler ok.

@zazen Yes.

@Majed

@zazen Yes and no. Yes animals can mimic art by being trained in pattern recognition and most are driven by instincts. No in that I'm arguing that ART is far more bigger, hierarchical, and wider that it includes humans, animals, ghosts, anything with sentience has ART to some degree. The ART of a bird making a nest and bird songs, some birds even mimic sounds perfectly, is art at that form or level. Different level of ART when a human does S.T.E.M shit like airplane design or nuclear bombs and nuclear plants, even drawing and visualizing drawing. ART has degrees and a spectrum to it, just like consciousness has degrees. Human consciousness way different from ant's, or a spirit, or an alien, same with ART. I thought I was clear enough for most users reading my arguments? I'm saying art has levels, and not just saying humans only have ART and no animal cannot have art right? Spectrum right? I have realized this discourse was derailed hard into ART existential bs when it's specifically about music being objective or subjective? Sorry OP, seems my argument points here going above most people's heads so I'm outta this thread. All because some guys are jealous an elephant can paint a tree or birds sing better than they do right?

@Karmadhi That's true, the propaganda machine in Israel is really strong. It's the world's fault obviously, not the Likud party Zionists in charge that made this whole mess 80 years ago.

@OBEler How am I answering this myself that there's no art seen here? Why are you making it like my answer is it's only animal abuse and hard training when I said the animal is capable of ART by it's behaviors, like the bird constructing a hut and nest for it's mate, or the octopus using shells and mimicking it's surroundings, or the fish using a shell, or the elephant using a paint brush to paint a tree? Even a Chimpanzee uses branches and stones is part of ART. Visual capacity, trunk control(limb control in other animals/humans/aliens) and internalizations and mental representations and sense making apparatuses in our minds, consciousness, and external factors have EVERYTHING to do with ART! YES! You are an artist if you draw lines on a number picture, draw using pencils or pens or charcoal on a canvas or other surface mediums. At least when you demonstrate the externalities of ART like marking onto parts of an environment. And when you have consciousness of a human, animal, alien or any sentient life YOU ARE AN ARTIST! Spare me the moral outrage of an elephant being forced to draw this shit for tourists to get rewards. I get and understand that I won't forget that, and I will NEVER FORGET the sacrifices of other artists and the Mangakas that draw beautifully forcing themselves in minimum wages just top draw amazing artwork that FEELS AUTHENTIC! Of course ART will have some sacrifices and sufferings to making ART! I suffer making my own ART having to deal with my health and mental problems trying to draw my own ART! Do you think the birds and the bees and the Elephant and the octopus wants to deal with all that ART to survive and maintain their lives in this world?! Everything based on developmental factors, ART has internal and external factors, is systemic and based on the Spiral Dynamics stages of development, moral and cognitive development, psychology, society, cultural programing, information ecology, one's ideological beliefs indoctrinated.

This is how evil and corrupt the React Community in YT are, especially the music ones. How are they giving Knox the win when Scru is clearly winning and disproving his other lies????STAN behavior that's for sure!

@Husseinisdoingfine That's a lot of greenery...

@bebotalk How is this response warranted towards @Princess Arabia? She's sharing a more spiritually and yes subjective opinion, and you're sharing some partial objective opinion on golf, and here I am arguing with you that there are loads other sports, combat sports, and other social arreas that take up more land than golf. The fact you think that golf courses, golf driving ranges, golf clubs, do not provide any benefit at all displays your bias and ignorance of golfing when we now have a more diverse demographic trying out golf. This stereotyping of white rich man mostly play golf is CRAZY, and just assuming golf does not provide any entertainment value or benefit to those golfing is simplistic!

@zazen I agree with that humans with their higher consciousness, and social being genetics, are both capable and co-create art together at various degree, and animals do a bit less of that. My past argument with Leo was he had this absolute belief animals are not capable of art, and humans do, when I say animals are capable of art, just not like humans do. I mean we literally have seen an elephant painting a tree in a video...and yes maybe there was some training and maybe abuse, but the elephant demonstrated it's visual capacity and control of it's trunk to even paint a tree here:

I think the first guy here, who's probably stage orange/green atheist, does a decent job trying to show Bob here, the more stage blue Christian Protestant, the shadows of his worldview, and why questioning is important. Other speakers like that Liberal atheist I think, and the last guy were a bit triggered more by his debate style and framing more so than the topic, I think:

This one seems a bit more legit, shows how stage orange/green valuing people backwards rationalize and argue stage blue values. Also shows religious dogmatism from both sides, and yes specifically I do agree with gangster guy that stories do get corrupted over time, which implication being the EGO and the devils corrupt spiritual truths, nothing new here other than there's several factors and effects to society:

@Leo Gura I'm not saying nonsense when you made that art video long time ago you said animals don't have artistry and humans are more creative and artistic, or am I wrong? Then when someone showed you an elephant painting you joked about how much abuse went to that baby elephant for it to paint a tree, like any being has to go through some abusive training to be able to make art. Sorry but animals are capable of ART similar humans, but in their animal way, for example the elephant painting a tree, or a bird in mating season constructing a hut and twigs and leaves, or a fish able to use a rock as a makeshift tool to crack open a shell. If those animals had hands and had minds more similar to ours they'd be able to demonstrate more of their arts to us, but due to their limited forms they can't, but that doesn't mean creativity is absent in them!

@Rafael Thundercat Don't misquote another user please. She was responding to OP's point of too many golfing courses.

@Epikur Reason why is because conspiracy theory is against forum guidelines. Also I disagree that golf course and golfing driving ranges are just for rich white people. People with an interest golfing are welcome.

Another example of religious dogma, and some limits of debating and arguing: See how triggered and offended everyone was there.