Bill W

Thought I'd copy & paste my PM to you Drew so JBram can get an extra insight to Billl W (for what it's worth!) Hey, I could not get into this at all. Watched it all, all be it lost some focus on/off. I love her voice and the pace and tone of her speech, but it sounds too much like the dating/sexuality/relationships part of this forum which I don't get much out of. This might sound arrogant, but I really believe if I get myself right in terms of my values I won't need to worry about strategies and tactics to enhance relationships. If I am open-minded, humble, grateful, honest and have faith & courage, everything else will fall into place, EVERYTHING! That's my plan my friend I really agree with her talking about programmed beliefs. I also refer to this as the human condition, or whenever I am feeling a bit of a devil, I call it the human condition infection which most of us are afflicted with and we are trying to sort out / manage the symptoms. A lot of what you post on the forum is in line with how I would like to think and handle things, so I'm always interested if you see something and think there is even a small chance I would find it useful. By me being honest with the stuff you do highlight to me, it will save you wasting your time etc. There are four things common on this forum that I am completely not interested in right now and that's material success, romantic relationships, sexual needs and psychedelics (just so you know). Not sure why I told you that, kinda random!

Good topic. For me, these are some of things that I'm working on, and that I consider my weak spots; Most problematic Withdrawing from others combined with withholding attention/affection, linked to punishing people for "wrong doings" Not admitting I've done the same thing (linked to the above) Attributing my own poor behaviour to stress or adverse circumstances, but not giving others the same benefit (again linked to the above!) Expecting others to be what they are not (as above!) Not listening properly, and not paying attention Very poor self-control with diet Less problematic (making progress but still struggling often) Blaming others Taking things personally Entitlement Not being open and honest, expecting others to “read between the lines” Intolerance Not forgiving Not admitting when I am at fault

@MsNobody Thanks for those clips, really, really good.

I also think that people who want to be right are just doing what comes naturally to them a lot of the time. When a behaviour becomes a habit, that's what happens, whether you are a mis-matcher or a person who has to be right. I think this is a key issue, that behaviour becomes natural for people. It feels natural so it stops being questioned. Well, at it's most problematic level it stops being questioned, as there is nothing to question (which is unfortunate for the people on the receiving end of the behaviour!). Probably unfortunate for the person themselves as well, as inevitably they will experience suffering, but not realise why. I propose that the level of needing to be right often correlates with that persons perceived level of self-investment in their viewpoint. This is perhaps where personal bias comes in and contaminates open-mindedness and humility. Nobody really wants to admit they are personally biased when trying to "right" the other person! Also, it makes me think of.....confidence in a particular stance is often a reflection of personality type that is repackaged in an attempt to display wisdom (edit: acting the big shot doesn't make you right, but some people assume if the message is presented assertively and without question, it must be correct). This is how abuse can happen. Many people are highly skilled in doing this. The use of language where a person writes or speaks as if what they are saying has 0% chance of being wrong. They are writing about a highly subjective viewpoint that is dressed up as fact. Basically, I've invested all this time in my viewpoint and it feels like I've cracked it and stumbled onto the truth, therefore it must be the truth for everyone and I will educate the masses. I am personally biased in that I believe Jesus, Buddha etc may have had a good point, but I do not believe we have 100's of Jesus' and Buddha's on this forum, but reading some of the posts you'd think this place is a magnet for the Jesus Christ's and Buddha's of our generation.

@Zigzag Idiot I can't even find any harsh criticism in your post, let alone anything I could think is linked to me

@abrakamowse Thanks for this, will watch later. Yeh, with my definition of belief, I know I cast the net wide on that, almost to the point that everything outside of completely verifiable fact is a belief. Verifiable being that more than one person would be able to verify it and agree it. So, for example, everything Leo talks about, for me, is beliefs. He believes this, that, and the other. If someone thinks they are God, for me, it's a belief they have. Not you, but I try to be subtle where I can because I've seen on this forum that when you say the word belief others can react like it is an insult calling their view a belief, like you are comparing their view to believing in Santa Claus. For me, belief is not an insult or a degradation. It is also not calling someone a liar. Leo for example, I believe he is very authentic and genuine. I don't strive to be ignorant or dumb, but for me, it's vital for my goals to actually remain as much in "not knowing mind" as possible, as for me, staying out of "black" and "white" mode is helpful. I've had a lot of problems with resentment in my life, and staying in "not knowing mind" can stop me forming conclusions that are based on my own agenda and my own beliefs. I don't see a lot on this forum really investigating personal bias either. I'm thinking out loud here rather than assuming anything about you!

Yep. But for me faith and belief is the same thing. Also, one persons dogma is another persons inspiration, guidance and/or comfort...Rightly or wrongly... Who gets to decide what is dogma? If I don't have faith in something or believe in something I just move away from it. Take it or leave it kind of thing. I could throw the word dogma at it, or not. I feel grateful to live in a society where I can pick and choose my beliefs and faith. Not everyone is so fortunate. What's the difference between faith and belief? Genuine question to see if I can benefit from your take on this ?

2 Billion people are cracking on with the Faith regardless. Doesn't seem especially destroyed. Can Faith even be destroyed? What do you think Shin? Can Faith be destroyed?

I admire you for still trying to do personal development and engage on here when you are in such a situation.

Hi Guys, Ever since I've looked to other ways of self-development such as spirituality and religion (which is only since 8 months ago) I've come to the realisation that many inspirational teachers have parts of their teaching or presentation that are at the minimum questionable, and at the most downright nuts. I also realise that I'm making a judgment when I come to these conclusions. A judgment that might not be true. Take OSHO for example. I'd never heard of him. I was in a bookshop (spirituality section) and picked up his book "The Buddha Said". I've reviewed that book on this forum. I'd say it is for sure in the Top 10 books I've ever read. To a degree, life changing for me, or at least opening up a new level of understanding. After I read the book I Googled him and found all this controversy about him. Before I hit my rock bottom and realised I needed to explore other ways of growing and coping with life, if I'd had read about OSHO on Google before buying his book, I'd never had purchased or even read the book. No way. I would have been embarrassed to even say I owned the book. I think what I'm trying to say is I have no real choice but to take away what I want from a teacher and leave the rest. I've yet to find a teacher where 100% of their teachings make sense to me, or are agreeable with me. I used to think I need to keep searching until I found this ultimate teacher. It's a crazy way to think, as my spiritual needs and goals will probably always be fluid and not static, so some teachings that I don't take too now, might hit the spot this time next year. I also have to remind myself that all these teachers / guru's are human beings as well. They all piss, shit, fart, cry and get anxious just like us. I also think a lot of them are obsessive just like a lot of us. I wonder if some of these teachers literally "can't stop"???? They will always be pushing the boat out, trying more extreme things, widening the net etc. Like addicts who never truly quench their thirst. Like gamblers who keep gambling until they win back all their losses. Like base jumpers who keep pushing boundaries and end up splattered on the rocks. My personal belief is that some teachers want their teachings to baffle people, to sound complicated so they can tell themselves "this is why it took me 5,10,20,30 years to discover the "Truth", because it's so damn difficult to find it". They have to justify their investment. Who would want to admit they have been "doing" spirituality for 10 years + but are possibly no more happy or advanced than Joe Bloggs who is 3 behind them in the queue at the grocery store. Joe Bloggs has never read a personal development book in his life, doesn't know what psychedelics are, and thinks "infinity" is something to do with Toy Story / Buzz Light Year. This post has just become a general ramble! Drew - Do you find Teal Swan useful?

I don't know anything about them to be honest Drew. In terms of addiction my wording was about not being able to use mind altering substances in moderation but it's a good point about whether they could be addictive. I tend to view an addiction as something you rely on to the point of detriment to your wellbeing even though you have awareness of the damage you are doing. The activity is performed for pleasure, avoidance or escapism. A compulsion to carry on the activity and withdrawal from the activity would be very uncomfortable at least initially. So by my non medical and non official definition of addiction, psychedelics would have a risk, especially in light of people chasing a perceived positive outcome by using them. If you can take or leave such substances and are not depending on them too much then it's not an addiction in my book. They may very well not be physically addictive. Yes I'd like to know more. You've motivated me to do that out of interest. I'm quite keen on brain chemistry but my knowledge is not advanced at all.

When I went to sort the threads by "last reply" in the spirituality section, 4 of the top 8 threads are about psychedelics. Half of me thinks this is drug taking behaviour that has been so normalised that people see it just as normal as having a bowl of cereal for breakfast, but half of me realises it's up to them. We are free to pursue our journey as we see fit. If something is helpful and not harmful to others who am I to step in? I'm talking forum wise. In my line of work I have a duty to be a bit more off the fence and try to minimise risk of harm to yourself if you are a client of mine. It's my job to support and encourage people to not take anything that is not prescribed by a registered/professional physician. I've overcome my initial urge when I joined the forum to jump in an accuse everyone of cheating on their way to "enlightenment". I'm glad I kept my mouth shut as I would have only exposed my own ignorance and judgmental attitude. I've never tried psychedelics and don't intend to as I have a track record of not being able to use mind altering substances in moderation. I haven't touched a drink or a drug in about 9 months. Prior to that I was drinking and drugging every day (alcohol and sleeping pills).

@jbram2002 Thanks for the post earlier about giving me permission to run wild & free on your journal.

I am currently working full-time. My job title is Health Keyworker and I support people who are unemployed into work. This could also be voluntary work or education that acts as a stepping-stone to paid employment. Most of my clients have a health condition and/or a vulnerability, but they want to work or return to work. I help manage the health condition and play a coaching role in terms of job applications, job interviews and starting a new job. A lot of it is about resilience, confidence building and problem solving. Also, managing relationships with others. I'm loving it at the moment. Prior to this I was a psychiatric nurse, so my mental health knowledge/skills are suited to my current role. I've a background in supporting people with a range of mental health difficulties and also addictions.

London, UK

I appreciate this might not be helpful but when I read your thread title I couldn't help think of two powerful things I've read. Slightly paraphrasing, but only slightly. Don Miguel Ruiz - You are the most important character in your own movie, but a secondary character in everyone else's movie. We are all the star in our own movie. When someone does something we don't like, we move their character into a different role, or write them out of the movie altogether. You cannot be the main character in someone else's movie. Harville Hendrix - In a relationship there is the initial honeymoon period where both people accommodate each others reality, then there is a power struggle as to whose reality is the real reality. That's when there are problems. There is either a compromise and a successful relationship (not so common) or there is a parting of ways as one or both decide they will not negotiate on whose reality is the real reality (this happens a lot).

Yes, as said also by Jbram. I agree with you. I agree with every word actually, except whether or not you are guilty. That I don't know! Good post. You nailed it. I don't want to dilute Jbram's journal with my own stuff, but while we are here, I don't care much for all this enlightenment, who is God, nondual, infinity stuff. I don't understand it and I don't really want to or need to right now. I have loads of tangible self-development stuff I am working on and there is enough things on this forum for me to get my teeth into that I do understand.

Have you seen the link (posted today) in the "is the forum addictive" thread. The man wanting to buy some new concepts. That's the memo I got. There is a few memo's going around possibly?

@Richard Alpert haha, that's brilliant. Should make it a sticky.

Enlightenment or psychosis Sorry, I'm in what might be called a devilry mood. When I'm in the devilry mood I feel like starting a thread called "I'm not enlightened, don't ask me anything" and see what comes back. Devilry is a word I never heard of before, can't help but smile to it. I can relate to some of what you experience on the forum. However, fortunately for me, whenever I reach that point where I think everyone is writing a load of complete BS, I stumble across a real nugget, some real inspiration that gets me thinking about things differently. It's also an exercise for me to practice humility and tolerance. I've had to stop myself a few times flippantly replying to a topic that I have no interest in. I'm not for a second suggesting you are not humble, I'm speaking about myself. Personally, it does me some good to pick out the nuggets and try to not get bogged down in nonsense. However, one man's nonsense is another man's inspiration. We are all infected with the human condition and everyone has their own way of controlling the symptoms I guess.

Looks awesome, thank you!

Your Avatar is scary. Was it taken during a nuclear bomb test?

I don't think he was saying everyone. He was just saying some people. I'm actually more interested in people's definition of addiction and the discussion around why addictions develop. Can't get enough of that topic right now. Honestly. I have become a bit obsessive with checking the forum throughout the day but if work is really crazy busy I don't check the forum and don't seem to suffer from not checking the forum if that makes sense. I guess it's interesting to see if there is a difference between obsessive/compulsive traits and an addiction.

@Anton_Pierre Thanks friend. Must admit, I don't do much breathwork BUT slowing down my breathing and deepening it when I go to bed has helped my insomnia a lot. I need to look at other examples of breathwork though.

Having struggled with various addictions to mind altering substances in the past, psychedelics are a big no-no for me. I simply do not have a track record of being able to use mind altering substances in moderation. Like you say, there are lots of ways to self-actualise and get spiritually wealthy.