Bill W

Hey, I just watched the 10min clip on centering prayer. I can't remember the thread you posted it on. I think today or yesterday. You posted 3 of them. I absolutely loved it. I actually read a book by Thomas Keating recently. It was him being interviewed by a recovered alcoholic. Divine therapy and addiction. Brilliant read. I think I'm going to really throw myself into centering prayer. It makes so much sense to me.

We do apply these faculties all the time, for better or worse. The person who starts the thread uses reason, logic, and conscience and so does the mod or Leo who then locks it. When there is a clash, the Mods/Leo reserve the right to lock up. Our job is to start debate, share stuff and their job is all of that plus the monitoring. Anyway, the person can actually start another thread but try to fit it more in line with what is expected.

I'm not saying it's a great tactic to do that and I might not like it done to me but can you honestly say that? This sentence is an example of concrete thinking. I'm here to break free from my concrete thinking and stay more in "not knowing mind". I doubt you really think a teacher can NEVER be a good teacher if he says a certain thing? You say that it will be locked out of fear. We all suffer from fear, all of us, every single one I reckon, but I doubt very much fear is a factor in thread locking. This is an assumption on your part. You probably have more fear about this thread than the mods! If you are honest? I'm not fighting with you. You obviously feel strongly that things are being unduly censored.

@How to be wise Thanks for this thread, it's a good one. I once looked at a Byron Katie video and didn't take to it, but seeing you on this forum and some of what others have said, makes me want to check her out again. I don't care for all this enlightenment talk and I don't want to try psychedelics. I'm looking for something practical to help me manage the ego and negative emotional states. A teacher like Byron Katie is possibly someone I should pay attention to. I think perhaps teachers with a very simple message get overlooked as we are all perhaps chasing something more complicated for some unknown reason. I'd be amazed if someone reaches the levels of emotional mastery you refer to by aged 20. Life still has so much to throw at you, but I can't dismiss what you are saying, not for a second. Good on you. Hope to see you posting still. Well done on your progress.

Moderators are also the teachers to a degree. Leo has said this place isn't just some place with free speech. It's a school here and sometimes we have to be put in the naughty corner. That's why we are here, to better ourselves. Edit: I know I said mods are just as wise/unwise as the rest of us, but they still the teachers, in a designated role

This will be locked up soon so thought I'd get in now. Got no beef with you and I don't suck up to moderators as I don't care for them either way, they are just as wise and unwise as the rest of the us, but they do have a job to do and I've not seen an interesting thread get locked. All the threads I've seen get locked are required to be locked, with the key thrown away. It's for our own good. This forum has to be above the average forum in terms of quality or what's the point in being here. I know quality can be subjective, but it doesn't take much to see that virtually all locked threads are not for this place, they are for the 95% of the internet. Standards here are higher and they need to be.

I can see why Leo is getting fucked off. This should be in the mental health forum if anywhere. Edit. Just annoyed at the sloppy use of the term autism. It can be a big disability for some.

Any Alien that gets close enough to Earth for us to assess their mental constitution would probably be making a model for us and not vice versa. We are a species that is working toward making ourselves extinct. No one wants our model trust me.

No offense but I think it would not pass quality control. Leo says he will reduce low quality threads. I am not saying you are a low quality just the question might be. Not my decision. I could be wrong. How does this question aid anyone's self actualisation? How does my post on this thread help anyone? It doesn't perhaps, so I am a potential hypocrite here not even contributing to your question! If no moderator locks this thread i am the low quality In the thread!

If Leo finds this thread it will be terminated. It will be targeted for destruction. It will be locked for 100,000 years.

Good topic friend! I also can end up in this situation. However, I propose that YouTube is not the problem. Actually I speak for myself here and perhaps it will relate to you, or maybe not. YouTube is not my problem. If I banned YouTube my craving would present itself in another form. I would probably end up doing something equally time wasting. If I am spending too long on YouTube watching crap that is not legitimately good for my personal development, then I need to work out what I am avoiding. I also need to check my level of entitlement. Often doing these soul destroying activities such as binging on the internet and binging on food at the moment is me living in the world of entitlement and not in the world of gratitude. It is also me living in the world of instant gratification and away from the world of hard work, dedication, commitment and discipline. I'm not saying we can never have downtime, but we all know it's easy to take downtime to a whole new level. I need to work on skillful relaxation and skillful downtime. So for me, I can't blame YouTube for my inner problems. I am not accusing you of blaming YouTube. I speak for me only. Dumb, instant gratification, wasted time activity is an outer manifestation of an inner problem. Sometimes the problem is simply sloppy habits, other times it runs deeper, much deeper.

Thought I'd copy & paste my PM to you Drew so JBram can get an extra insight to Billl W (for what it's worth!) Hey, I could not get into this at all. Watched it all, all be it lost some focus on/off. I love her voice and the pace and tone of her speech, but it sounds too much like the dating/sexuality/relationships part of this forum which I don't get much out of. This might sound arrogant, but I really believe if I get myself right in terms of my values I won't need to worry about strategies and tactics to enhance relationships. If I am open-minded, humble, grateful, honest and have faith & courage, everything else will fall into place, EVERYTHING! That's my plan my friend I really agree with her talking about programmed beliefs. I also refer to this as the human condition, or whenever I am feeling a bit of a devil, I call it the human condition infection which most of us are afflicted with and we are trying to sort out / manage the symptoms. A lot of what you post on the forum is in line with how I would like to think and handle things, so I'm always interested if you see something and think there is even a small chance I would find it useful. By me being honest with the stuff you do highlight to me, it will save you wasting your time etc. There are four things common on this forum that I am completely not interested in right now and that's material success, romantic relationships, sexual needs and psychedelics (just so you know). Not sure why I told you that, kinda random!

Good topic. For me, these are some of things that I'm working on, and that I consider my weak spots; Most problematic Withdrawing from others combined with withholding attention/affection, linked to punishing people for "wrong doings" Not admitting I've done the same thing (linked to the above) Attributing my own poor behaviour to stress or adverse circumstances, but not giving others the same benefit (again linked to the above!) Expecting others to be what they are not (as above!) Not listening properly, and not paying attention Very poor self-control with diet Less problematic (making progress but still struggling often) Blaming others Taking things personally Entitlement Not being open and honest, expecting others to “read between the lines” Intolerance Not forgiving Not admitting when I am at fault

@MsNobody Thanks for those clips, really, really good.

I also think that people who want to be right are just doing what comes naturally to them a lot of the time. When a behaviour becomes a habit, that's what happens, whether you are a mis-matcher or a person who has to be right. I think this is a key issue, that behaviour becomes natural for people. It feels natural so it stops being questioned. Well, at it's most problematic level it stops being questioned, as there is nothing to question (which is unfortunate for the people on the receiving end of the behaviour!). Probably unfortunate for the person themselves as well, as inevitably they will experience suffering, but not realise why. I propose that the level of needing to be right often correlates with that persons perceived level of self-investment in their viewpoint. This is perhaps where personal bias comes in and contaminates open-mindedness and humility. Nobody really wants to admit they are personally biased when trying to "right" the other person! Also, it makes me think of.....confidence in a particular stance is often a reflection of personality type that is repackaged in an attempt to display wisdom (edit: acting the big shot doesn't make you right, but some people assume if the message is presented assertively and without question, it must be correct). This is how abuse can happen. Many people are highly skilled in doing this. The use of language where a person writes or speaks as if what they are saying has 0% chance of being wrong. They are writing about a highly subjective viewpoint that is dressed up as fact. Basically, I've invested all this time in my viewpoint and it feels like I've cracked it and stumbled onto the truth, therefore it must be the truth for everyone and I will educate the masses. I am personally biased in that I believe Jesus, Buddha etc may have had a good point, but I do not believe we have 100's of Jesus' and Buddha's on this forum, but reading some of the posts you'd think this place is a magnet for the Jesus Christ's and Buddha's of our generation.

@Zigzag Idiot I can't even find any harsh criticism in your post, let alone anything I could think is linked to me

@abrakamowse Thanks for this, will watch later. Yeh, with my definition of belief, I know I cast the net wide on that, almost to the point that everything outside of completely verifiable fact is a belief. Verifiable being that more than one person would be able to verify it and agree it. So, for example, everything Leo talks about, for me, is beliefs. He believes this, that, and the other. If someone thinks they are God, for me, it's a belief they have. Not you, but I try to be subtle where I can because I've seen on this forum that when you say the word belief others can react like it is an insult calling their view a belief, like you are comparing their view to believing in Santa Claus. For me, belief is not an insult or a degradation. It is also not calling someone a liar. Leo for example, I believe he is very authentic and genuine. I don't strive to be ignorant or dumb, but for me, it's vital for my goals to actually remain as much in "not knowing mind" as possible, as for me, staying out of "black" and "white" mode is helpful. I've had a lot of problems with resentment in my life, and staying in "not knowing mind" can stop me forming conclusions that are based on my own agenda and my own beliefs. I don't see a lot on this forum really investigating personal bias either. I'm thinking out loud here rather than assuming anything about you!

Yep. But for me faith and belief is the same thing. Also, one persons dogma is another persons inspiration, guidance and/or comfort...Rightly or wrongly... Who gets to decide what is dogma? If I don't have faith in something or believe in something I just move away from it. Take it or leave it kind of thing. I could throw the word dogma at it, or not. I feel grateful to live in a society where I can pick and choose my beliefs and faith. Not everyone is so fortunate. What's the difference between faith and belief? Genuine question to see if I can benefit from your take on this ?

2 Billion people are cracking on with the Faith regardless. Doesn't seem especially destroyed. Can Faith even be destroyed? What do you think Shin? Can Faith be destroyed?

I admire you for still trying to do personal development and engage on here when you are in such a situation.

Hi Guys, Ever since I've looked to other ways of self-development such as spirituality and religion (which is only since 8 months ago) I've come to the realisation that many inspirational teachers have parts of their teaching or presentation that are at the minimum questionable, and at the most downright nuts. I also realise that I'm making a judgment when I come to these conclusions. A judgment that might not be true. Take OSHO for example. I'd never heard of him. I was in a bookshop (spirituality section) and picked up his book "The Buddha Said". I've reviewed that book on this forum. I'd say it is for sure in the Top 10 books I've ever read. To a degree, life changing for me, or at least opening up a new level of understanding. After I read the book I Googled him and found all this controversy about him. Before I hit my rock bottom and realised I needed to explore other ways of growing and coping with life, if I'd had read about OSHO on Google before buying his book, I'd never had purchased or even read the book. No way. I would have been embarrassed to even say I owned the book. I think what I'm trying to say is I have no real choice but to take away what I want from a teacher and leave the rest. I've yet to find a teacher where 100% of their teachings make sense to me, or are agreeable with me. I used to think I need to keep searching until I found this ultimate teacher. It's a crazy way to think, as my spiritual needs and goals will probably always be fluid and not static, so some teachings that I don't take too now, might hit the spot this time next year. I also have to remind myself that all these teachers / guru's are human beings as well. They all piss, shit, fart, cry and get anxious just like us. I also think a lot of them are obsessive just like a lot of us. I wonder if some of these teachers literally "can't stop"???? They will always be pushing the boat out, trying more extreme things, widening the net etc. Like addicts who never truly quench their thirst. Like gamblers who keep gambling until they win back all their losses. Like base jumpers who keep pushing boundaries and end up splattered on the rocks. My personal belief is that some teachers want their teachings to baffle people, to sound complicated so they can tell themselves "this is why it took me 5,10,20,30 years to discover the "Truth", because it's so damn difficult to find it". They have to justify their investment. Who would want to admit they have been "doing" spirituality for 10 years + but are possibly no more happy or advanced than Joe Bloggs who is 3 behind them in the queue at the grocery store. Joe Bloggs has never read a personal development book in his life, doesn't know what psychedelics are, and thinks "infinity" is something to do with Toy Story / Buzz Light Year. This post has just become a general ramble! Drew - Do you find Teal Swan useful?

I don't know anything about them to be honest Drew. In terms of addiction my wording was about not being able to use mind altering substances in moderation but it's a good point about whether they could be addictive. I tend to view an addiction as something you rely on to the point of detriment to your wellbeing even though you have awareness of the damage you are doing. The activity is performed for pleasure, avoidance or escapism. A compulsion to carry on the activity and withdrawal from the activity would be very uncomfortable at least initially. So by my non medical and non official definition of addiction, psychedelics would have a risk, especially in light of people chasing a perceived positive outcome by using them. If you can take or leave such substances and are not depending on them too much then it's not an addiction in my book. They may very well not be physically addictive. Yes I'd like to know more. You've motivated me to do that out of interest. I'm quite keen on brain chemistry but my knowledge is not advanced at all.

When I went to sort the threads by "last reply" in the spirituality section, 4 of the top 8 threads are about psychedelics. Half of me thinks this is drug taking behaviour that has been so normalised that people see it just as normal as having a bowl of cereal for breakfast, but half of me realises it's up to them. We are free to pursue our journey as we see fit. If something is helpful and not harmful to others who am I to step in? I'm talking forum wise. In my line of work I have a duty to be a bit more off the fence and try to minimise risk of harm to yourself if you are a client of mine. It's my job to support and encourage people to not take anything that is not prescribed by a registered/professional physician. I've overcome my initial urge when I joined the forum to jump in an accuse everyone of cheating on their way to "enlightenment". I'm glad I kept my mouth shut as I would have only exposed my own ignorance and judgmental attitude. I've never tried psychedelics and don't intend to as I have a track record of not being able to use mind altering substances in moderation. I haven't touched a drink or a drug in about 9 months. Prior to that I was drinking and drugging every day (alcohol and sleeping pills).

@jbram2002 Thanks for the post earlier about giving me permission to run wild & free on your journal.

I am currently working full-time. My job title is Health Keyworker and I support people who are unemployed into work. This could also be voluntary work or education that acts as a stepping-stone to paid employment. Most of my clients have a health condition and/or a vulnerability, but they want to work or return to work. I help manage the health condition and play a coaching role in terms of job applications, job interviews and starting a new job. A lot of it is about resilience, confidence building and problem solving. Also, managing relationships with others. I'm loving it at the moment. Prior to this I was a psychiatric nurse, so my mental health knowledge/skills are suited to my current role. I've a background in supporting people with a range of mental health difficulties and also addictions.