Lister

Ok. But did you realize this yourself? For me there are some misconceptions on here about certain points.

This is true. How many people are there who dare not to be themselves? What a gift to be able to just admit what you are without resistance or fear. ?

Don't take me seriously at the moment. I think I'm going through something odd.

You have built a huge story about enlightenment based off of the back of this baseless assertion.

That's just word play. Come on, you can do better than that!

I voted for option 5. But that's only because I'm naturally pessimistic.

Are you kidding me? The only reason a shepherd is even in his job is because he needs to earn a living from them. Go vegan!

Thanks for your comoassionate response. But it doesn't change what I feel.

there is a special place in hell for predictive text!

Pass the dutchie brah. Prejudice and generalizations is your very essence. Quit warring with yourself, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's not comfortable playing spiritual oneupmanship.

I'm no expert (at anything really) but I am also finding spiral dynamics a little bit confusing, so in my understanding I don't take it seriously as a model of how things actually are, but a good way to capture different ways of thinking that have evolved over time and understand how they can conflict with each other but not to take one position completely, but to integrate all positions into one whole - which is yellow thinking I believe? Not sure, I'm as ignorant on the subject as the next person. But I definitely see a lot of these characters in my own personality. I get the feeling that if for example you are at orange and dislike blue thinking then you have a shadow to integrate. You shouldn't really try to develop green until orange is nicely embodied.

Don't worry, you will get bored with it extremely quickly. Small towns are full of gossips. Try having a conversation about anything that requires an IQ of over 100 and you will be met with a glazed look and porobaby be the but of someones jokes for your entire existence and beyond. Plus everyone knows eachother business but none of it is accurate or fair. There is a downside to everything that appears nice on the surface.

What does that even mean? What is "re-wiring mind/body- spirit mean? I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you provide some specifics as to what I means to be "re-wired to an "original blueprint"? What is this original blueprint?

@Monkey-man I wonder if this term awaken(ing) is a new age word? Because the new age movement seems to have been spawned in part by the human potential movement in the 60s and I think a lot of erroneous beliefs came from eastern spirituality being transferred to the west en mass and we mixed them up, confused a lot of eastern and western concepts. Which is what you get today's spirituality. Awake? What is awake? There is a part of us that is perpetually awake because it's nature is wakefulness. What the hell is it that is the awake part of our mind? Everyone has this pure, unadulterated wakefulness, so why all this work to "realize" or awaken? Surely all that is required is a simple cognitive shift from being the body to being the wakefulness? When that happens it's crystal clear that wakefulness never actually became identified with the body anyway. It never became conditioned by objects. The next step is to become conscious if this wakefulness is different in others? Is it the same wakefulness? Is there two or more types of wakefulness? No. Of course not. Wakefulness is just that. So as wakefulness are you alone? Now that's a realization that everyone can have no matter what their conditioning and no matter what the state of their ego.

@Ellenier If you really were awareness you would know without a doubt what happens after death. Nothing happens. Nothing is happening now, what awareness thinks it's seeing is something that's played out forever. But awareness looking out through your eyes will be still awareness after your body has died. See if you can grasp what I'm saying, you as awareness are always seeing out through someone's eyes, aren't you?

@Neorez Do you think you might have attached a lot of erroneous meaning to that experience? For me, all that happened is you felt the struggle of struggling against your own ego collapse for a moment. You were honest for a moment, but because you have been conditioned by spiritual teachers you maybe interpret this as some kind of enlightenment experience? You can even go overboard and create a whole conceptual model called "ego backlash" based solely off an experience that wasn't properly understood, and then use that to interpret falling back into states of struggling against your subconscious? Worth a consideration?

Maybe you're depressed because you don't like your ego and it knows it? Trying to get rid of the ego and kill the ego is pointless because a) it's never happened in the history of humanity b) it's not necessary because awareness is beyond the ego. Awareness is not the absence of an ego, awareness is what is always aware. Its aware right now of your ever changing contradictory ego. Without awareness you wouldnt even be able to speak of an ego. So awareness is already there, you just have to recognize it. You need an ego, an ego that is appreciated for what it does for you, an integrated ego. There is a difference between liberation and mystical "enlightenment" experiences of "ego death".

@Leo Gura Hows your relationship going at the moment Leo?

@Pilgrim So to boil it down to it essence is that you don't care about his healing process (you know he meditates) and you're more concerned with your own neediness. Notice you called his behaviour "weird". That's a little bit of a derogatory word, it lacks nuance, understanding, compassion, maturity, self acceptance. How well do you think you know yourself? I'm not sure why Leo is making such grand assumptions off the back of your very limited description of your partner. What does Leo really know about this guy? What do you really know about him? Be careful who you listen to in life. Is anybody really "ready" and that complete package? Leo is projecting his ideals onto people that he doesn't even know.

@moon777light What is aware of the mind not being centred in what it imagines is the present moment? The present moment does not actually exist. But let's not venture down that rabbit hole. Let's inquire into true I amness. It's always there, it's what Zen calls your original face. It's never not "present", even when your mind made sense of I amness is lost in thought. What is it that was watching you daydreaming the whole time?

There is only awareness aware of a world, a character called lister and other characters which are one and the same movie projected on a screen. The character lister cannot escape the movie because he is the movie. Awareness was always just silently watching the whole time, but didn't know it was watching as a completely impartial observer. The only quality awareness has is "aware". But it became involved in the movie, got lost in the movie.

This is a STORY that you took from actualized.org. What is the one thing that everyone can agree on?

So now you have gone from me trying to tell you how it is to others trying to tell me how it is? Such is the slippery nature of Maya. You're not even consistent with your own story! And it IS a story. It means 0 to anyone but you and maybe others that have spent time being conditioned by actualized.org. But it isn't true for everyone. What is the one reality we can all agree on for all people regardless of their spiritual brainwashing?

I've found awareness. That's all there is. There is no concept that will capture it. What I'm asking is are you content with just resting as awareness or do you want to become "God"? Because everything that isn't awareness is just not real. It appears, but it's not real. It's Maya. It's illusion. That's what the mind does, it wants to find God in the illusion. But there is no God. The creation is just a projection that is happening independently and being conditioned by itself. It's a dream. Has anybody been able to solidly very what it is, if it exists? Does an external world exist? Does an internal world exist? If so then what is it? What's the one thing we can all agree on? The ONE TRUTH?

This is your story. In the same way anything I say about you is also my story. What is the one truth we can all agree on here and now that is 100% verifiable? There is no enlightenment. Enlightenment is for you, for you to solidify your own personal experiences and then attempt to tell others that they need to experience your experiences. It will never happen. In the meantime you miss the obvious.