Nivsch

@gambler The fact that this person is unreliable doesn’t cancel out what happened. Are mass killing, burning people alive in their homes, murdering people in front of their families not outrageous enough already? What’s the point of these shameless attempts to downplay what happened on Oct7? I think all this is doing is making your side shoot itself in the foot. This strategy doesn’t make your side's position be more respected but it does the opposite. Of course rape occurred. Even if it exaggerated in some Israeli reports, hamas’s actions were barbaric, medieval, and far from anything resembling legitimate “resistance" and nothing you say will change that.

Great

@Anton Rogachevski Please give an example.

@oldhandle Perhaps I’m underestimating the feelings of Americans who feel deeply threatened by the recent changes in how society relates to science such as the rise of the anti-vaxxer movement and by Trump’s actions. But from my perspective, the American system seems far more resilient and robust compared to what is happening in my own country, Israel, where the head of the system can theoretically stay in power indefinitely and continue deepening his toxic policies. In contrast the crisis in the US seems (to me at least) much more temporary especially if we consider the tendency of the political pendulum to swing with each election. There’s a high chance the next president will be moderate again. I understand from the comments here that it's not so simple, and that the damage Trump has done may take a long time to repair, which is a valid concern. There may be other important aspects I’m missing, so if anyone here would like to explain their concerns more deeply, I would be happy to hear.

I can understand this. This is one thing. Take into account also that if you zoom out to the macro middle eastern scale you will see why Israel had reasons to be paranoid and overcompensate on this. The aggression of IDF has an origin of legitimate survival impulses, even if this behaviour creates new problems of course. Notice the difficulty to defend such a narrow corridor which was central Israel before 1967. What doesnt mean Israel has to conquer the whole West Bank, but at least the most Western strip (even 10%) of this mountainy area might be important to settle. I wrote my position in more details here:

Can you add me a source for that? I am not familiar enough in the dynamics right after the Six days war.

The more terror that happens, the more IDF operations will needed and the more it fuels the extreme views and the emotions of revenge what will worsen the situation to everyone. The more IDF operations the more terror too.

@Raze This is a loop because every terror attack makes IDF more aggressive to ensure defense what worsen Palestinian conditions and increases terror. The Right wing takes advantage on every such cycle and uses it as an excuse and justification for its policy.

@Raze Nazism is a totally another league in another universe I don't agree with those kind of comparisons.

The Right wing policy is indeed very bad and unfair.

Expelling Palestinians from A or B weren't common I don't accept this. They have happened sometimes yes, but you have to understand the context of terror attacks on Israelis that lead to this event. You can't talk about IDF operations in the West Bank without taking into account the security concerns of the Israelis because both are intertwined all the time. With that being said, again, the fair solution is only a Two State solution but the conditions to such solution right now are far from ripe.

The way you generalize some Israeli religious or right wing sectors or the Israeli government onto 'Israel' is also unacceptable to me, but I try to relate to the content and not to attack you personally and make false assumptions about you, because it would not be fair to do. The choice is yours.

@gambler Seems you again extrapolate my messages towards imaginary directions your mind is inventing. If you want to do a discussion without personal attacks you are invited to.

@Raze Yeah our current government is just recently really "burning bridges" in that sense though it wasn't the case regulary. No doubt, this government is the worst both Israelis and Palestinians have suffered under in recent times. If you see the inner cold war inside Israel you will get a clue to the corruption of this government what necessarily radiates also externally.

You really have assumptions and projections on me that I have never said or thought and not even close.

My impression is based on division of the West Bank into Areas A, B, and C. In Area A which is under full Palestinian Authority control Palestinians live with more autonomy and less direct Israeli military presence, although the Israeli army can conduct limited operations targeting terrorists who have murdered Israelis, as was the case after the terror attack in Jaffa a couple of months ago (though I don’t know at this point in which area he lived). Area B is more complicated, with Palestinian civil control but occasional Israeli military presence. This limits full freedom, but still allows for relatively independent daily life in many places, due to the Palestinian civil control, which seems quite logical to me.

Usually when people don't agree they try to comment to the content of the message. Just for you to know.

There is no argument that the situation is distorted and unhealthy and in friction zones, there is an oppressive policy and actions. Nevertheless in most of the West Bank surface area Palestinians still live a decently independent and relatively free lives, though not entirely due to the checkpoints between major areas. Do you think minorities in other neighboring countries do better? Mostly worse. Although this is true that Israel as a democracy is expected to behave better, and that Palestinians deserve a real independent state, but exaggerations won't help advance the discussion anywhere.

@Raze What do you mean by civil society?

But why? They know that by 2029 Trump is out, so it is all quite reversible.

I work in weather forecasting in a meteorology company, and from this year I started helping people with mental health challenges through formal training in LiCBT ACT but in my own way, based on my personal experience, while I also try to guide them towards gradually discovering their own healing paths.

@zazen Israel gets overall (not particulary about the current operation in Gaza but in general) bipartisan support which is way beyond only the Evangelicals. I can agree that both Evangelicals and Smotrich and Ben Gvir voters have those lines of thinking you mentioned. Maybe the more right wing sector in the Likud (Bibi's party) too.

+1 🧡

@Breakingthewall From all that I have heard over 30 years about the relationships between key people in both countries, I find those lobby and utilitarian explanations almost an insult to intelligence, way oversimplified, feeling to me as a bypass stories in some senses and sometimes bordering in conspiracy. I understand this video has affected you and you are right for being outraged from people who watch bombing and so on, but I really can pick up examples of foolish people in every country.

Maybe the US understands something many people don't. Maybe the US knows Israel in a much broader way for decades and sees that small sectors hijacking the country do not truly represent the Israeli public and its values. Values that, on average, are similar to those of America and also diverse within the population in similar way.