Nivsch

@Raze An enemy who is growing nearby your town is a completely different reality for you than an enemy who "treatens the Western civilization" 8000 km away from you. I am not justifying any of the things you said some Israelis are saying but you can't compare apples and oranges.

@Raze I edited my comment to @Karmadhi and changed the tone that was less fair ("keep dreaming") but what he describes is a fantasy anyway.

Half of Israelis want the Two State Solution even today. See researches I added in the Israel/Palestine thread (the post of Ron Gerlitz).

Hostages But I personally think Israel shuold agree a deal and release them all long time ago.

This is nice as a fantasy.

This is not an invitation to demonize any country based on its government's actions or right wing sectors agenda that is implemented.

The comparison is very good. You know that Western countries as a whole have no problem to kill thousands of civillian in their war against terror when it is thousands of km from their home. Now imagine what would happen if ISIS was 50km from their homes.

@Karmadhi What do you think would happen if America or a European country like the one you live in, would have to face a direct threat from a neighboring terror state (not just Iraq they already attacked with thousands of civillians who got killed) let alone oct7? Are you sure they would react better then Israel? This obsession to hunt Israel you display is amazing.

Senior Israeli journalist (translated with Google Lens)

@AerisVahnEphelia Luckily development is measured first and foremost by moral clarity, because this is the deepest sign of an ability to truly connect the dots. Your message shows a misinterpretation of what development is.

But he isn't morally developed than the child. There are everywhere children who are like little Shamans who can teach many adults about moral and developed way of looking at the world.

I don't agree with that at all. Nazi Germnay is at the bottom of the moral scale. Tribes are better because at least each tribe member can fight for his life equally and with honor. The national structure isn't relevant to the question of development when it regresses into a mutant, cultish, sick form of such.

I have lost you here. Think what you want.

Those events are either before IDF has established or in the 1950s, and even then, though criminal and reckless, aren't similar to the clear preplanned intentions to kill civillians we see in terror attacks.

@Emerald The root intentions are fundamentaly different.

Before Netta has won in 2018, her song made Israel to be the favorite to win ESC in YouTube and the official site of the polling. This is an organic dynamic.

@PurpleTree Israel is most likely controversial in Europe, and a really good song and performance are still necessary, and Israel brought that this year. Also, the demographic tension in Europe, combined with the backlash the anti-Israel which are often too demonic and bizzare messages cause from the other part of the continent plays a significant role too. Overall, perhaps Israel is really not as hated as the media shows, and many Europeans actually hold more diverse and nuanced views about it. The hate portrait against Israel turns out to be between a myth to a much more complex picture in reality.

@PurpleTree The EBU made it quite clear that the voting results are valid. https://www.thejc.com/news/world/ebu-eurovision-rigged-public-vote-israel-m1p2a2be Not everyone is a fanatic who generalize government actions on an entire nation.

Supporting Trump's plan to relocate Gazans after all that happened isn't an ideology of ethnic cleansing but a potentially reasonable solution to the situation when 2M people are locked in a tiny area between two countries and suffer a misserable life under a tyrranical rule of a terror organization.

@Raze From the deep right wing and above. I know Israeli politicians and their stances quite well.

@Raze The fact you mention 1950s were the mantality and norms were so different then (jungle, survival, less liberal and humanism) and also mention this ratio in an attack of hamas when its intention was SO different than IDF just shows the deep flaws in your current meesage.

So you are saying here that European coalition and US army that the war they commit harm many thousands of civilians are equally horrible to hamas? Zionists, in how this word is interpreted here, are at most two sectors in our society. When 3000 Israeli soldiers will deliberately enter a Palestinian territories and shoot whoever they see then it will be "equal". Until then, it is FAR from being equal. But still unjustified and bad. I thought you are honest but I see you just want to bit Israelis as bad as you can.

I agree that what Israel does understandably raises strong emotions among Muslims in Europe who want to express what is in their hearts. But I think that when a terrorist carries out an attack in Europe, he sees Europe, the West in general, and Israel as representing the same thing. Not aiming his message to Israel alone. Otherwise, I think, only Israeli embassies or Jews would be the targets.

@PurpleTree Even if Israel made a stronger campaign than most countries, this was important precisely to correct distortion and get more truthful results. Why? Because the juries hold 50% of the power while representing only about 0.001% of the voters. They aren't a representative sample of their nations' complexities, but rather represent at most one or two sectors who usually lean significantly to the left compared to others due to their political tendencies that comes from the closed circles/bubbles of group think of their professional background. They have proved to be undeniably enormously biased and in a complete opposition to the public, creating structures of allied votings which transparently homogeneously vote to favorite countries almost every year. In the context of this year, their fear of being called out by the public of their circles make this problem even worse. So when Israel makes more people abroad vote, it actually make the results be closer to what they would be if 100% of the points came from the public. Nevertheless this doesn't come to justify any of these tactics, but given the game isn't clean from both sides, their absolute influence has to be as equal as possible so they can offset each other. The solution to this problem isn't to keep pushing those tactics, but to try to dialogue and work toward making the rules of this competition to become more balanced and less politically skewed.

He mentioned there many more reasons that are not connected to Israel but to the West in general. About Israel, how can I know the bad things he blame Israel in (Ok we can agree on bad policies towards Palestinians during the decades) aren't mostly an excuse for him to calmly negate Israel existance? Because HE wrote that in his own words (quotes from the letter): "The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes" "The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased" "The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed" How is this different than the Far Right Israelis who say that this land belongs only to Jews? Just the same, only reversed. How is Bin Laden here different in his retoric and his thinking structure than Israelis Far Right like Smotrich or Ben Gvir? And then how it affects his other details and the extreme one sided way he describe the whole conflict?