Nivsch

Amin el husseini in 1930's and his supporters also grew up in a concentration camp? Hassan nasralla the head of Hezbollah in Lebanon which its values are identical to hamas? Is Lebanon also a concentration camp? And what about Yaser arafat who came here from the concentration camp Tunisia? What about Boko haram in Nigeria? Palestinian society has an inner disorder. Israel acts can for the most only be triggers that make this disorder worse, but have not created this disorder.

This is not accurate. If Hizbollah which is also a terror organization although bigger, was particiapate too in oct 7th surprise Israel could be in a very serious problem. At the second part you are trying to draw a symmery between Israel and Russia while they are not even close to each other in their values.

No I don't know because Israel does not want nothing as long as its neighbors are quiet. But with terror organization you cannot heal the situation without collateral damage because by definition it acts like a parasite. It would have done surgically at the same way the Kibuttses and villages near Gaza were released during 7-9 oct. In Gaza the situation is different because hamas has built for years fortifications we cannot attack only with troops. Racism only looks that way when the other side doesn't fully convinced you need this racism to survive. But if you must have this racist attitude to survive in a given environment then you are not really a racist. And if you insist you are still a racist even then, then the racism term will loose all of its meaning and purpose. I really don't know. Maybe if would have enough independent thinking to zoom out and to see hamas is more to blame that IDF, and in the day to day life I would be fearful of hamas and have anyway a good reason to hate it.

@kenway Yes to make the civilians put pressure on the terror organization controlling them. Now you will probably ask but is it moral to cause suffering to innocent civilians and I will say that we cannot harm this organization effectively in other ways and you will say that we can. Since we don't know the accurate truth happened, the pheripery of the data will be rounded to fit any side's agenda. But the asymmetry between the two sides's values system is huge to the favor of Israel, that still has the responsibility to keep improving. No point to argue about tactics when you will anyway try to maintain Israel as bad as possible.

Infrastructure... suffering... This is still not killing of civilians.

No, this is populism. The acrobat efforts IDF did in Shifa and with cooperation with the hospital staff you won't see in any other military in the world. @kenway Dahiya doctrine aimed to deal with the a-symmetry between a military and a terror organization in harming infrastructures of it to silent it, after other attempts to stop its missiles shoothing into civilians areas didn't work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

I am absolutely agree, I just think that a 8 year old child can be neutralized in other ways, and if a soldier feels he must shoot because his life is in threat, he can still shoot on the leg or foot. I cannot understand shooting in a child head because this is firstly just wrong in any sense becuase this is a life of a 8 yo child who again can be neutralized quite easily in other ways, and secondly the world doesn't interested in the complex explanations, the damage has already done.

@lina If its true those soldier/s must be punished severely because this is not any different than terror. These are not our values and I'm sure this is not the norm but an exception happens relatively rarely but still a symptom of a problem, I am not denying that, that must be addressed. Since this is AJ I will only believe it if I see it in more sources and I will try to check.

@Tanz Yes I know it from mental health in how the mainstream thinking is shallow and creates victim mentality, in an excuse of "scientific" facts that are very limited in the best case, and even not really scientific in the worse case. That is true that many people are in a level of self-awareness that they don't have any other realistic alternative at the level they are at, and there is a place for the mantal health system as a safety net for them. But overall, this system is so limited in its thinking and in many ways it is also suppresses people from going higher in their self trust and this is a big problem. I got to reduce significantly my ocd only because I decided to trust myself and my brain's reasons for doing what it does and stopped thinking about things it does as just shallow "malfunctions" and the brain as "stupid" like the toxic mainstream attitude wants us to think.

No. I have not learned that in school at all. Only that we have enemy countries I hope this is OK to learn in elementary school. And that they have to be eliminated? Come on seems you just invent fake symmetry from your mind. I have never learned we have to eliminate anyone. Be surprised.

Valid. But I think it is also important to add that the neighbor is problematic and sadist in his behaviour to his chickens to begin with, even before the stealing has started. And just to stop the stealing is necessariy but there is a deeper healing process this man has the responsibility to go through by himself. Thats now a whole complex therapy process in the collective scale required a super flexible and holistic attitude we cannot grasp it all yet.

By the way isn't it the nature of every country establishment to occupy something? Isn't it by definition? Is there a really clean way to establish any country? What if almost every country did similar things to what Israel did during its establishment because this is the nature of this thing? Because if so, we have to admit the reason only Israel is tripled checked is something else that is much deeper than occupation and I dont know the answer.

How could Israel as you see it be established here in a different and more moral way?

@Emerald OK but practically is it really can work in the middle east to not be an ethnostate when the other ethnic groups are TOO far from your ethnic group values? The pressure gradient between the value systems is just too high to allow ourselves to be sucked into an arab majority nation that would be teocratic with no women and gays rights. So practically maybe we have to be creative here and not to copy the europeen model to here but to create something new, that keeps the Jew majority but in the most moral way possible to the other nations in the country that will get autonomy and full civil and collective rights.

Thats why I think Egypt is the healthiest leadership option possible for the Palestinians to develop to the next stage but won't work probably because Egypt doesn't want them. Palestinian authority is better than hamas of course but problematic potentially too. What you suggest with the money is interesting. About the homeless analogy I think this is very different also and mainly because Jews really have valid historical connection to the land and to Jerusalem.

Sorry I am not in computer now cant quote in parts. I think that holistic attitude will end the wars eventually and graduately but we dont have that kind of leaders right now. But every country started like this. Established in the account of the nearby countries. BTW arab world is a fucking big house of 1km * 1km compared to homeless Jew. Everyone wants a country of their own. So the jews are lost in your opinion? Cannot never have a country?

Yes, then what choice we have? You say it is racist but the other alternative is far worse. BTW muslims and christians have their own countries. Aren't the jews deserve at least one country to make it by their own values? Its not merely a religion game because I doesnt care so much about the religion as I care about the values. But what can we do when in this case the two things are completely overlap!

No. The arab countries are red blue. Israel is blue orange green similar to US average. You are underestimate the danger here.

But again, without Jew majority our democracy and values will collapse and we will turn into another arab country.

I'm talking on the Jew majority that have to be preserved. Not about the actions that need a change and to be more fair. I agree that practically the actions of the government have to improve with the problematic settlements issue, but again I mean that we must keep the Jew majority (and in a moral way of course. not to harm anyone).

But there is one thing that is healthy and necessary in this nationalism in this tough region. In this area, and I emphasize in THIS area, losing the Jew majority is a very dangerous thing to our values and character of the country that otherwise will be turned into another arab tyranni. So there is a valid reason to this nationalism as a healthy blue to protect our western values and democracy.

But this radical ideology was here in the 1930's with Amin Al husseini. Before Israel. I can agree Israel makes the virus worse, but not that it created it. About the violence and domimation if you mean to the settlements I agree this is a problem and Israel has to fix it, it does has responsibility yes, but this is secondary and not the root. The root is found within the palestinians society itself in my opinion. How can we explain 11.9? The terror in europe?

Yes I understand this is problematic to generalize in such a way, but their education IS. They learn they have to kill Israelis from age 5. Let alone this is a damage to their own mental health and to a chance of any healthy future for them. But how this is ever going to change if they are being controled by a clever virus who uses them in order to survive and does abrobat manipulations to prevent any treatment against him and also make the immune system believe him at the end.

I have learned about this I know this statement. I just don't see it in reality in our society at least the part of society I am surrounded with. I understand that the deep right wing is more prone to that.

I meant people here = In Israel, where I live I don't know anyone in my country thinks he is chosen.