VeganAwake

It's never going to shift into some unreal idea the mind thinks up. That's the illusion right there. Believing you will somehow find something other than THIS! This is all there is bro.... accept it or not!

So-called consciousness is just the body's ability to see hear smell taste feel think. Notice It doesn't go beyond that. Hooray for consciousness I have the ability to do EXACTLY what every other human is doing. Lol it's just funny! ❤

It's just a big fun play of life... I say s*** I don't mean all the time LOL.... but whatever it doesn't matter! ❤

Yep, situations sound personal, there's just what's happening for nobody. So simple it's complex/ so ordinary it's extraordinary. ❤

Yes there will always be apparent winners and losers at the racetrack.

Thank you nice of you to say ❤

@Nahm ❤ Happy holidays to you & your family and friends!

No word salads for me today thanks anyways. ❤

I don't either ? seems all interconnected and completely unavoidable! ❤

Totally ❤

I just don't think you understand that the body-mind organism has a natural tendency to avoid things that will cause it physical pain or death. It's super obvious when you look out in nature and watch the way animals live. If the body was ignorant of this obvious fact it may very well jump into shark-infested water or walk off the edge of a cliff. You show me even one completely fearless body-mind organism and I will show you a body-mind organism that is either ignorant of the inherent threat, or has some kind of serious physical and or mental disorder.(I would consider being brainwashed a disorder)

Yes fear can still seem to arise but there is no one taking ownership and giving it energy any longer so it does not cause suffering.

Have you ever witnessed someone that has a phobia of public speaking give a speech? The body freezes up, the palms become sweaty, the stomach tightens up, the heart beats really fast, the speech can be slurred, monotone, quiet or excessively loud. Psychological fear can absolutely impact the functioning of a body. What was being said is that this psychological fear can be hidden or masked in certain situations so there would be no way to know whether or not psychological fear was being experienced. It could never be definitively proven or disproven.... so in that sense it's unknowable! ❤

And it looks like VeganAwake just took the lead the score is nothing to nothing

But there's no telling if a body is experiencing internal fear from an external appearance. The same way a body couldn't prove externally that they are not experiencing internal fear. So the whole discussion just falls apart at that point because it's simply unknowable. ❤

Hey bro really nice to hear from you, yes my wife and three boys are doing great and I will be joining them next month in Grand Forks North Dakota after I retire from the military... Yes tis the season happy holidays to you and your family as well and I hope you are all doing well. ❤

Yes psychological suffering ends because it's recognized the sufferer(ME) is an illusion. But it still sounds like you believe there is a real separate individual that can one day BECOME fearless and thus allowing the body to become fearless. Of course a body would not be afraid of of a rope that it already knew was not a snake. But the body can never predict when the next real snake might sneak into the house. What's being said is that the projection of a body becoming fearless has nothing to do with enlightenment. As I said before the body will naturally jump out of the way of a moving cargo truck prior to any thinking about it. There isn't a real you within the body that becomes fearless and then quickly decides whether or not to jump out of the way of the cargo truck.... that experience of a doer and thinker is the illusion of self. ❤

Those experiences don't mean anything, there not important. Imagine what a schizophrenic could write on this forum.....endless wild experiences.

Hello, I had a lot fun with numerous drugs and hallucinogens in my late teens. Also lots of meditation and seeking in my mid 30's. One day for no reason whatsoever it was recognized that "I" wasn't a real entity within the body. There was apparent experiences, memories, thoughts, ideas, concepts, beliefs but none of which equaled a real "ME" or individual in the body. It surprisingly wasn't that shocking because there never was a strong sense of individuality here from the start. ❤

Exactly, And resisting reality isn't something separate from reality.... it's the whole shebang, nothing is excluded! ❤

Fear is an inescapable phenomenon of a properly functioning body/mind organism. Ignorance can appear as fearlessness. (a body that simply doesn't recognize an obvious threat to its survival) Also external appearance doesn't reveal internal experience.... a body appearing fearless externally could be screaming in agony internally.(poker face) None of which has anything to do with enlightenment. ❤

Enlightenment isn't a real happening within time and space. It's the end of something that never actually started but was experienced as real (illusion of self). And in that sense it could be described as a non happening.

The conditioned body will turn its head when it's name is called, prefer coffee over tea and avoid death by jumping out of the way of a moving train. Then the sense of self claims those actions as it's doing. It takes credit as the doer and thinker of all actions and thoughts. And thus it also seems to suffer when things don't go according to its unreal agenda. ❤

I have understood everything you're saying. The general misconceptions about enlightenment are endless. Hence the importance of approaching any inquiry empty of concepts, biases or preconceived ideas about it.(Empty glass) 1) Enlightenment isn't actually real. It's just a word that points to the end of the already unreal experience of being a separate individual within the body/mind. 2) It has nothing to do with the body no longer feeling physical pain. It's the recognition that there isn't an owner or experiencer behind that feeling of pain or pleasure for that matter. 3) There are not levels or degrees of enlightenment. Levels and degrees only seem real within the framework/dream story of being a real separate individual that could either move closer or further away from so-called enlightenment. 4) Enlightenment has nothing to do with the apparent individual gaining enough spiritual knowledge and understanding that it will one day achieve or attain something called enlightenment.... it's actually the opposite. It's the recognition that the individual trying to achieve or attain is completely unreal. 5) Enlightenment doesn't answer the question of why? It reveals that the questioner is completely unreal. 6) Enlightenment isn't just about experiencing certain happy emotions or something like that. It's every emotion! 7) It's not about becoming a better selfless spiritual person that society will love and fall on their knees for. It's the recognition that better or worse are mere concepts that are accepted as true. ❤

@Salvijus I remember trying to uphold all those spiritual beliefs, it becomes like an identity.... it's exhausting ❤