Lilia

Shall we talk about the nature of maths? As I see it, mathematics is a way of describing patterns of God's mind's workings within God's mind. What would you say maths is? How would you say it's different from any other means of representation of reality, such as art or the English language?

It wasn't necessarily a mystical experience, but when I was around 5-7 and learnt to write, I would often sit down and write down 'essays' about big philosophical issues, such as happiness, God, life purpose, etc. Some years ago my mum found a box with those writings. There was one that read something like: "God is not what you think. God is everything. Everywhere you look, you see God. You are God, and everybody is too." Another one read: "There's just one life purpose - to experience life." My family wasn't religious, but my mum was into New Age and esoterics. She'd often talk to me about energies, healing and karma, so I could have been inspired by some of what she read. I don't think I was, but maybe I just don't remember. What I remember for sure is how 'high' I felt when I was writing the essays. I still remember the perfume of that flow, and now am learning to evoke it in adulthood.

I don't mean magical thinking; I had a lot of that too (e.g. thinking I was moving the curtains by the power of thought). I mean genuine glimpses into our true nature, followed by feelings of ecstasy, love, creativity and wonder. I'm curious because I had some of that going on, but didn't have a proper framework to put it in. Is it the same for all children? Did you have some of that too?

As an initiator of this thread, let me just say how much I love reading through everybody's experiences and formulations. I especially love how no one's switching on a guru and dismissing the experiences being discussed.

Can you elaborate on the exact ways in which mathematics captures this?

There might be psychological blocks that prevent clear expression. Such as: - fear of stumbling - fear of wasting people's time - fear of being disliked - fear of miscommunication - fear of silence - desire to embrace all perspectives at once - trying to pre-empt undesirable feedback, etc. People who have these blocks, often end up rambling. I would look into those and work specifically to eliminate them. There could be other things worth looking into. For example: 1. Getting clear on the message. Do you know 100% what it is that you want to communicate? 2. Make sure you speak your truth. (I remember Rupert Spira said once: 'Make sure your intentions are good, and then you'll have nothing to worry about.') 3. Put yourself into the listener's shoes. What words are they unlikely to understand? Don't use those words, or if you absolutely have to, define them. What level of spiral development are they likely to be at? Tailor your expression to their level's worldview, but check for feedback and make corrections if necessary.

@Understander I don't think epilepsy counts, but I think you're raising an important question here: What counts as a mystical experience? I'd say a mystical experience in the context of this discussion would be an extraordinary event when your perception changes from dual to nondual. Of course, these are 'adult' and very specific terms. But I notice, that when certain facets of truth are experienced now, such as oneness, no-self, eternity and spacelessness, dream-like nature or subjectivity, it's the same kind of experience that occurred when this body was little (sorry for the clumsy way of putting it). So that's what I mean by it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check him out.

Wow. I knew someone who said he loved fevers because they made him feel like he was high.

Oh yeah, what a moment! Like an echo of the nondual realisation reverberating back in time. Looks like this wonder connected with the sense of being an "I" from an early age is something people interested in these matters share.

Great story! You reminded me of a coven I started with a classmate. One day we summoned a spirit and I believed it lived behind the curtain in my room until I turned 16.

@Understander Thanks for sharing that. I like to use mine as shortcuts too.

I'm an intuitive, and my life is full of action. I do not necessarily think of it as action - more like 'I flow with the universe', but based on the feedback I get from friends and family, it looks like I do a lot.

Thought of one more that works for me. Focusing specifically on things I love about humans, and also on man-made things I am grateful for. Like when I'm eating cheese, it was some human who made it possible. How do I know that annoying human I just met on the subway is not the same human who played a role in that cheese? For instance, my husband and I are renovating an old house now. Thanks to all these various building materials we can create a house of our dreams, and all of those materials have been made by humans. The trick is, to only notice the things that you really feel grateful for.

@An young being I think there's great wisdom to the age-old saying: We can only love others up to the degree we love ourselves. The more tolerant I become of my own eccentricities, the more tolerant I get of everyone's. After all, everyone's eccentricities are my eccentricities. As if there is anybody else in this town

Good point. One thing I've learnt about people is that you never know what's on everyone's mind. The best I can do is to free them of my own projections of what they are thinking and feeling and just let them speak instead.

People do not like people who try too hard to be liked. Those who do not care about being liked are often the most likeable.

@AerisVahnEphelia Hey, I guess I hear what you're saying - that the highest recognition is the recognition of truth, and we should not get distracted by so-called states but go straight for the truth. Correct me if that's not what you're saying. But I think states and experience are fascinating in their own right. I love studying patterns in experience. Yes, it's all empty nothing, but it is also a quirky nothing. Remember, we talked about selective identification in another thread, and you got curious whether it happened in a dream or elsewhere? That was a study of experience I am talking about 😘

@LastThursday Loved this cat. Thanks for sharing! Recently I have been contemplating alternative coordinate systems that could be used to talk about reality. I love creating some and testing them for consistency (perhaps I should go out and touch grass more LOL). I think it is possible to create many interpretation systems to describe the interplay between the same events. Parallel to mathematics, I think psychology is one of such arbitrary systems that we invented and forgot that we did, seeing it now as the way things are but not how we describe them.

I guess a quantum physicist could say that when you look at your dog, the dog appears.

It's like when you love something so much you end up hugging it till it's dead

Somehow this is the sexiest paragraph I've read in years.

I read in one of Robert Monroe's books on astral travel how he got to communicate with 'subtle entities' using something like 'thought blobs' for a language. The idea was that an entity sends a mental 'bundle of ideas' to another entity that the latter then has to unpack. Such thought bubbles were rich with information, like what you have in a dream when you understand many things at once without having to go through them sequentially. Wonder what maths would look like for aliens who communicate like that!

@Breakingthewall I hear what you're saying. I feel like suggesting a flip though: wouldn't it be more precise to say that we're inventing maths when we're observing all those patterns, rather than discovering it?

@AerisVahnEphelia I'm not sure if the fact that all experience is a dream should negate curiosity about experience.