Paul92

@Shin Then explain to me... We know the ego is an illusion. There is no 'self'. We are all, essentially, one thing. So, what is the point in a relationship?

@Aakash I know why it happened. I was in an emotional state questioning reality and severely depressed. I pushed her away because I didn't want to get attached to an illusion. But the memories still hurt because it was a wonderful experience, even though now I know it wasn't real. I just want to know what I do next... I need guidance. I read in a book of Zen is that enlightenment is realising that you are unique and perfect just as you are. But everyone on here says we are not unique, we are one... which one is it?

@Shin At the moment, yes I am seeing other people as illusions. Everyone is an ego, a mental fabrication, which is an illusion, therefore not an absolute entity. All my life I saw people as unique individuals - absolute entities. Almost like individual souls. But if we are all one soul, then we can't love 'another', surely?

@Aakash Appreciate that. But you say, take 100% for my life. This isn't 'my' life, is it?

@Shin Why is it?

@Shin What was my conclusion exactly? That she was not real?

@Shin Okay. I know thinking is fantasy. I'll assume you know the truth. Is the girl real or not?

@NoSelfSelf How can you share authentic joy with yourself? @Shin What is there to know? If 'me' and 'her' are the same thing, nothing can be exchanged. The only thing that can be exchanged is things between two egos, which are not 'real'. I'm just trying to understand. I thought I loved another human being - an individual. But what I loved was an illusion. STILL, that hurts, because the experience was incredible.

@NoSelfSelf I really don't know if I can enjoy an illusion. This might be my ego talking. Well, no, it is my ego talking. But without us being separate entities, life loses it's colour for me. So what's the point in a relationship with an illusion? It makes zero sense. I don't see this as liberating, it's cruel.

@NoSelfSelf So we have to be separate on some level...

@NoSelfSelf But they aren't two people, are they?

@Shin Yes, interesting point. However, it just seems really paradoxical. By definition a relationship is a way in which two or more things are connected, which would imply separateness. Perhaps they don't call it a relationship... but it is, isn't it?

@Shin It is a beautiful experience. But I think it loses its colour if you are not actually loving another seperate entity. If the woman was an individual soul, then that is fair enough. But if we are one soul, it doesn't make much sense and you are enamored with an illusion. @NoSelfSelf I loved that relationship even though it was short lived. My main focus was to just try and ensure that I made her life more enjoyable. But then I realised that 'she' is not real... it just makes me wonder why bother..

@Shin That's a lovely video and makes a lot of sense. But what I don't understand about Tolle and others is why they talk about having a 'partner' or why he has one. If you are the same, then what's the point?

So, yeah, I guess I'm a place where I can't argue much about there being no 'me'. I'm a bunch of atoms that have existed forever. 'My body' replaces itself over and over again. There can't be a 'me', I get it. But I feel so numb and hopeless. Like seriously. A lot of people on here know I struggle with my mind. In the illusionary world, I've been diagnosed with OCD. But I don't know if this is an OCD thing or just me struggling with the fact that I don't exist. I started feeling better a few weeks ago. I told myself, look, I'm a human being, I just inhabit a planet, I don't know why I am here, let's just enjoy it with other people and have a good experience. I'm an animal, like any other, I can just wander about doing what I want. Have some fun and make the best of every day. Eat nice food, have a drink, make jokes, laugh etc. I met a girl and yes I got attached. I just enjoyed her company. I thought wow, she's someone to enjoy this experience with. Another animal, like me. But she's not real. Again, a bunch of particles. There's not a single atom in her 'body' that was there when she was born. So she's an illusion. I get it. It's just hard though, you know? Being a human wasn't perfect, but it had meaning and I felt like I was living. It certainly felt better than whatever this is now. Leo says enlightenment is when you can stare at your hand long enough and realise it isn't you. Well, I seem to be able to do that pretty easily now. It just makes me feel really sick. What I don't understand, however, is why bother with the human body. Why create this? If we are just a bunch of particles, why do I find the female form attractive? Why do I have a penis? I know, technically, I don't... but there is SOMETHING there. Why does this 'body' have eyes, ears, nose and a mouth? But I know there is simple nothing unique about 'me'. It's just hard to come to terms with it. When you spend your entire 'existence' loving people and loving certain things and then you realise that, ultimately, they don't exist, it kinda hurts.

I guess I'm just looking for certainty on what reality is. What the universe and what we are. We know we are something, clearly. But like I say, I have a form of OCD (I understand that to many on here saying stuff like, oh I have OCD, sounds like complete bullshit). My mind can't deal with uncertainty about some things. Last week I was crying my eyes out on my sofa because I felt I had been unfaithful to my GF because I told my friend at work that I agreed that her boyfriend was lucky to have her! I was questioning my intentions etc. If there is potential for uncertainty, I go crazy. What is more uncertain than reality? I guess I can't prove there is no 'me'. Would seeing people as individuals not be the truth though? To be honest, my life has always unfolded just as science has always suggested. I've never had an enlightenment experience. But when I start looking at things like biology, I start questioning what actually makes me, and everyone else humans.

I don't know where it all came from. I was always happy believing we were all human monkeys, with our own experiences on this quite lovely little planet. But then I got into this stuff and it opened a can of works in my mind. A can I wish I never hoped I'd opened because it has genuinely taken the colour out of everything. I like to look at people as unique individuals. As individual animals. They are born, they age and then die. The thing is I don't subscribe to a lot of stuff that comes with enlightenment. I. E channeling, psychics, spiritual healing etc. I just don't at all. But who are we if our bodies are just an arrangement of stardust that is constantly changing. There can't be a 'you'.

It's so hard. It's so cruel. The girl I'm seeing. I love loving her and making her feel loved. I wanted to make HER experience as wonderful as possible. Me just spending my time with Her makes my experience wonderful. But there is no her, right? All I have today is sleep and vomit. I can't even move out of bed for anxiety. What life is this? What sort of creator would create such an illusion and cause such suffering? It makes no sense.

I preferred living in the illusion. Life had meaning. I felt like an individual. I felt others were individuals and unique. I could invest my time in other people. I could love other people. Laugh with other people. Now life has lost its colour. I'd say I feel alone but I guess there is no me. This experience was much more enjoyable before. Seems like a bit of a sick joke to be honest.

Firstly, please forgive me, I know I've been a pain in the ass on this forum before. The things I've said have often come from within a confused and scared state. The thing is, regarding nonduality and the like, I really don't believe. Simply because I have not had any experience of it. So again, bear with me, please. I really don't believe that everything is light and love. I don't buy into mediums and psychics. And I don't buy into a lot of the other things that come along with this sort of thing. But I wish it was all true, and I'll explain why. I love/loved life. I love the earth. I love animals. I love looking at stars. I love the universe. I don't want my experience to end. I've recently met a girl. And we've been dating and I think we're already falling in love. I don't even know how this all came about. I stopped looking for love years ago, and then just as I started exploring this stuff, here she came. And she's wonderful. Last night we went our, and it was truly one of the most amazing nights of my life. I never wanted it to end. She's wonderful. But one day I'll be dead. And so will she. One day, the universe will end again. Which means everything we might do together, any effect we have on the world, will be gone. So isn't everything pointless? It breaks my heart. Truly breaks my heart. I'm at work typing this and im having to hold back the tears. You might laugh at this, but it breaks my heart. People might say, "well you're only 26, you've got a lifetime to live! Enjoy your time here". But I haven't got a long time. Time, as we know it on earth, move so quick. Everything you look forward to, comes and goes. Like last night for me. I was so excited for the date, and I loved the experience, but now it's over. Which is fine, things have to end, I get that. I have the memory of it which is great. And there's the prospect of many other great nights. But it can't go on forever. Before you know it, you're 80 years old, basically waiting to die. Or are you already dead? It's controversial but I do think that consciousness is just chemistry. But I wish it wasn't. I'd give anything to be able to live forever in whatever form. I'd give anything to just spend eternity with this girl. Give me reasons why everything isn't pointless if I'm basically already dead..

@mandyjw I'd agree that often the most wonderful things are the most mundane. Here in England today, it's rained all day. I spent quite a bit of time just sitting watching it come down and listening to it. I love that. Again, it breaks my heart that we all won't be around forever to experience something so great.

I have to admit that I really don't believe in esoteric things. I just haven't experienced it, so I can't believe. I know that I have been diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder and OCD, which I know is also controversial here as many don't believe in such things. I HAVE experienced having those issues though, which are things that seem to align with materialism. Again, I might be wrong. I have posted before that before I had a depressive incident before Christmas and came across the Power of Now, I lived quite a happy life. I felt I had purpose. I woke up pretty much every day with excitement. I never considered existential issues. I knew one day I would die, but I was happy to play my part in the advancement of civilisation. I'm a humble guy and I love the small things in life: good company, enjoying music etc. As I've gotten older, I became more content with just being alive and being around people that make me laugh. I do believe in the beauty of life! That is my point Life IS wonderful. Look at this planet. People are wonderful. Loving a woman is beautiful. I think even grieving a passed loved one is a beautiful process. I know it is attachment, but I have a real attachment to life. This girl too... to paraphrase Forrest Gump, I'm not a smart man but I know what love is. We've had some great times already. I just find it heartbreaking that the current prediction is that the universe will end one day. And all of us will cease to exist. Isn't that horrible? All our memories will vanish and not be experienced by anything or anyone. If someone told me the universe would just expand forever, and it would be up to the human race to try and survive, then I believe we could do it and I would not fear death. Because I know in some way, through documentation, memories and stories, we would ALL live on some way and we would all be playing our part in our survival. To me, THAT is a beautiful thing. I don't see the beauty in forcing myself to be attached to anything, and just sitting around doing nothing.

@Hellspeed Any examples, please? @Aaron p I'm sorry but I struggle to be convinced. I find your post very interesting and clearly you hold firm beliefs. @Pouya This is always my point. This all just another story we tell ourselves to try and deal with the harsh realities of being a human monkey. Humans always try and find away of making themselves the centre of the universe when in fact we are just as insignificant as any other animal in the grand scheme of things. If a baby was born in a forest, and somehow managed to grow into a small child without assistance from any others, it wouldn't go around believing it is the master of everything it sees. It would act like any other animal. It would try to protect itself. It would feel pain. And then if it came across friendly creatures, it would form bonds. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. I love this planet, I really do. I love everyone in my life. I just have to come terms with the fact it can't go on forever.

@Markus Thanks for that. What you say does make sense, to an extent. The more we love something the more suffering you can experience. I get that. But I don't see it as a bad heartbreak. If you are with someone all your life, you love them unconditionally, and they pass, then sure it is gutting that they have died, but you still have your memories. And grieving their passing is still a beautiful thing, in my eyes. Grieving is a beautiful thing, can't anyone see that? I know we will have ups and downs but there's always that possibility of underlying love that will remain constant. I know elderly couples who have been together since their teenage years. It's beautiful. What upsets me is just the fact that it looks likely - as science predicts today - that those beautiful stories and memories won't live on with human kind forever. What I'm saying is, if I knew this earth/universe was to last forever, I wouldn't care about dying one bit. And I'd probably never feel sad again, after everything I've been through. Because I could take comfort in the fact that in some way, we ALL live on.

@Highest I know it should be about enjoying the time we have. That's the thing, I love life so much that I do fear death. If someone told me that the universe will exist forever, then I could accept death. Because I'd feel I'd played a tiny part in the advancement of humankind and the universe. That would be a worthwhile purpose, in my eyes. I do love life, the ups and the downs. Which is why I always felt relatively happy. I guess I never realised that the universe will collapse one day. I know you might think it is a long time away, but if something is absolutely guaranteed to happen, then hasn't it already happened? Any book maker would pay out on something that they'd discover to be guaranteed. @TheAvatarState I didn't mean something to live for being 'her' exactly. I meant that life is great, especially when shared with people you love. I'm not saying she gives me meaning. But she makes me realise that life can really be fun. Which, again, is why I am crushed because I'd hate for this to end.