Inliytened1

Dave - Can there exist an advanced society in which liberals and conservatives don't exist? Meaning - even the definition of liberals and conservatives was something constructed by the human mind - as we build and construct our societies we run into many complex issues - and in dealing with these issue we see that some people disagree on certain key aspects. What do we want from society? We want survival, but more importantly we want to be happy, and have the resources we need to live a high quality life - the means to experience a good life - while also coexisting with the rest of mankind. How does one navigate this, without coming into conflict with others at some juncture? In other words, how does one not only survive, but thrive, while also being in a state of peace with the rest of mankind? Is it possible or sustainable, and if it is, is it sustainable for long periods of time? such as centuries? Can a society become advanced enough where all of its population can enjoy survival in a fruitful way? Claude - It's an intriguing question about whether an advanced society could exist without the divisions we see between liberal and conservative ideologies. A few thoughts: It may be possible, but would likely require a fundamental shift in how humanity views social/political issues and organizes itself. The liberal vs conservative dichotomy arises from differing perspectives on change vs tradition, equality vs hierarchy, government's role in society, and other core philosophical disagreements about how to structure human civilization. If a society could achieve a very high baseline of wellbeing for all its citizens - meeting universal needs for food, shelter, healthcare, education, safety, and self-actualization - it could potentially reduce some of the conflicts that drive ideological divides. When basic survival needs are met, people may have more harmony on how to pursue higher-level goals and meaning. However, even an advanced society would likely still face complex issues like allocating limited resources, determining collective priorities, making rules about new technologies/situations, and matters of individual rights vs societal good. There could still be differing viewpoints on these issues based on fundamental values and human nature. A harmonious advanced society may require: A unifying set of humanist values like rational skepticism, ethical reasoning, and belief in human rights. A system of government/decision-making that gives everyone a voice and stake. Strong tradition of science/education to resolve issues objectively when possible. Cultural narrative that differences in ideology are natural and not an existential conflict. Ultimately, while ideological divides could potentially be reduced in an advanced, resource-abundant society, differing viewpoints and some level of conflict may always exist due to the complexity of governing a diverse population. The key may be creating robust systems to manage those differences in a fundamentally peaceful, reasoned and ethical way.

@Yimpa I thought we were your therapy? Or are we the reason you need therapy? 😀

Enlightenment is free.

@Javfly33 perfect.

Shine the light! You guys kill me. Love this place.

It means enlightenment. Breaking out of the dream and the ego mind. Your mind right now is locked in the matrix with certain beliefs that you hold keeping you locked there. Open your mind!

Hey bro! Long time..glad you still check in @James123 you'll be back. Where else to discuss spirituality? Unless you are gonna go into isolation and live as a monk. If you do congratulations and I wish you well!

Let's be honest. We are talking about God here- or a higher power. In terms of that there can't be multiple beliefs. If you believe there are multiple paths to God then that is your belief. If you believe that there is no path that is also your belief. You cannot escape a belief. You can directly experience God but that is not part of this discussion. In this case belief can be eluded. The question was can you hold multiple beliefs. It's tricky - but you can only hold one in your heart. Not knowing which is true and holding your mind open is simply the belief that everything is possible.

To hell with society 😀 We cultivate our own Truth in the end. So don't blame the culture.

Now we are talking. The fear of death MUST be ever present. Without it you couldn't exist as finite form. You would dissolve into Infinite Consciousness. The fear of death is not the fear of the cessation of @Someone here. It is fhe fear of all that he holds onto. All of his attachments. The biggest of those is his identity. The falling away of this identity is terrifying. But notice something very interesting here - who is it terrifying to?

I know. It's fascinating to think that death could in fact be an illusion. It breaks the rules of the dream. But then, going against the rules perhaps is thinking outside the box. And who tells you to think inside the box? Well, the box of course. Or those within it. In order to break out of the box you have to learn to have your own mind and not let the minds within the box have enough influence to control your thinking.

If only I could be more like them.

Because it's an illusion! How could anything happen after something that is a fallacy?

I don't believe I do. Yet, on further investigation there may be many beliefs to uncover that I never realized I subscribed to. Who knows? 😀 I believe it's possible 😀

Youre right! There is so much to be found there.

No worries! I mean - Saruman started out as part of the white council but then succumbed to his own need for power and went to the dark side. His strength was at that time greater than Gandalf's. But Mithrandir returned from his battle with the Balrofg the White One - and was able to defeat Saruman. Sauron did not exist in body so could not be brought down in battle. Only the destruction of the Ring could be his demise because his power was wielded through the ring. And it took a little hobbit- the smallest being on the planet, to take out the largest threat that existed. If that isn't irony I'm not sure what is. But Hobbits are humble- so perhaps that makes them taller then they stand by measure of feet and inches. That symbolizes that it's not stature that is a measure of a man, but rather his heart.

I think you are thinking of Sauron not Saruman...but yes those are very good points indeed 😉 Saruman was part of the white council but his mind was bent by Sauron and he became a servant of the Dark Lord.

I agree a thousand percent! We don't disagree about that.

That's an interesting take - I like that a lot! I never thought of it in that context but it makes perfect sense! The ring itself, you could say has a lot of symbolic meaning. The slow, but steady corruption of the mind via selfishness and greed. And the need for power. Yet breaking free of the Ring in a sense is the liberation of self or ego falling away. But the longer one holds onto the ring, the more difficult it becomes. Until it completely consumes the individual and any selflessness and goodness that was there has vanished under the power of fhe ring.

There is the concept of alone sure. There's a concept of the Absolute too 😀 but one could also argue that the Absolute can so too be divided into Absolute facets - depending on how one views the Absolute or experiences the Absolute. Goodness, for one - or Divinity for another. Perhaps love, maybe? And maybe Aloneness too! It's possible anyway - in the Infinite expanse that is reality

But then that would be your belief.

Yeah but that just means they have turned a compilation of a group of different beliefs into one.

I don't see how that would be possible if you truly believed in one thing your mind would be locked.

Thanks ...i forgot to add that although Tolkien was brilliant i don't believe he was enlightened or knew much about mysticism. But his mind flowed with mystical thoughts. I believe he actually knew some visionary scientists who played fundamental roles in the discovery of quantum physics. And yes I know this is a thread from 2017 but as a huge Tolkien fan I couldn't resist.

But also there is an Alone as an Absolute- just as there is an Absolute Self with the collapse of self/other.