Inliytened1

@Lister 've had what you call mystical experiences. That's why I know they are not real --no IMO you haven't had mystical experiences otherwise you would know it's the ONLY thing that's real!

@Lister capable and actually becoming conscious of awareness and that it is not happening within a brain are two different things, otherwise everyone would be an Idealist by now. You have your beliefs I respect them, but you are clinging to religion and not Absolute Truth. This Truth can be discovered if you do not confuse the map with the territory. It is Absolute (outside of Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc) You seem to be stuck in the ideas of Hinduism and can't move past that because you aren't open minded enough right now. You want to turn Actualized into another religion which it is NOT. You can discover this for yourself.

@zeroISinfinity He's saying that there is Awareness, and everything is happening inside Awareness. He's an Idealist, right Lister? I mean if you were a Materialist then everything would be happening inside a brain? The mind/Body problem. Is the Mind inside the brain/body, or is the body/brain inside the mind? not "the" mind but "a" mind, or "awareness" For you it's the latter - Am I right so far? I just wanna see where your paradigm, whatever the hell it is, shifts from ours.

@Lister discriminating awareness from the objects appearing in it What do you think that is dude? LOL. You just made my own point.

@Inliytened1 @Lister Still, if you can "experience" it even once in your life it is really something you can't describe with words. Most of the world still thinks everything is happening inside a brain, so that's what you Awaken to as well - you Awaken out of the Materialist Paradigm. You seem to be somewhere in between right now - need some direct experiences of your own.

@Lister Nobody has ever made this state a permanent reality AGREED, as shown by my previous posts. True liberation is something other than passing states of oneness. ALSO AGREED It was liberation - but True liberation is Eternal Oneness. Still, if you can "experience" it even once in your life it is really something you can't describe with words. Most of the world still thinks everything is happening inside a brain, so that's what you Awaken to as well - you Awaken out of the Materialist Paradigm. You seem to be somewhere out there right now - need some direct experiences of your own.

@Lister Lister, the Absolute is outside of time and space, you are confusing the memory of becoming the Absolute with the Absolute. You are right, these are just words and memories we speak of now. But we're pointing to something that you can become directly conscious of. For you when it is happening it is not an experience, it is outside of time and space. It's like you are mistaking the map for the territory and missing what is being pointed to here. In essence what you are saying is there is just a map and no territory, we're trying to tell you there is a territory, but it can't be communicated.

@Preetom Your confusing things - Everything is happening within consciousness - you - me - this whole thing, our physical bodies - it's all happening within this universal field of consciousness. This universal field of consciousness is actually you. The true you, not the ego. When you have a non-dual experience, you become this field of consciousness, or Absolute Infinity. All dualities collapse, there is no physical body , there is just Oneness. I have had this experience, have you? Before you try to school me i would ask if you have become directly conscious of consciousness for yourself and your idea of enlightenment might change. What I am saying is that at some point you come back into your Ego - there is no escaping that until the physical body (which itself is an idea) dissolves. Then the idea of your ego which is an idea with the idea of your body dissolves permanently as well, and you are the Infinite.

@Preetom But has the illusion of separate self completely vanished? When the illusion is really popped, there is no 'acting' enlightened anymore. It is enlightenment period. --That's death of the physical body dude. Or let me make that clearer - that IS a non-dual experience. A PERMANENT state of that is physical death.

@Preetom That's all correct IMO, but then how can you say Leo is not enlightened when he has stated he has had non-dual experiences? You seem to be chasing yourself into a corner here...

@Preetom Ahh Preetom - With all due respect you do have some work to do on your humility. Your point is well taken here - but your forgetting one thing - Infinite possibliity. "There is no such thing as sacrificing ones own peace for others" _ There is no such thing as No such thing, remember? In the truth of absolute non dual self love, there is no place for otherness. - There IS a place for otherness, that's what infinity is. Could Jesus refrain from sacrificing his own peace for others? NO!! That would make him miserable. Bit he could have - it's happening everyday. Could mother Teresa stop her benevolent acts? No. She had to do it for her happiness or else she would be miserable. - That's happening everyday too. Could Hitler stop his carnage? No! Same case here. - Yes he could, if he took some 5-MEO.

@Preetom @Leo Gura No i get what you are saying - again language is breaking down here because someone's definition of Enlightenment is relative. I have had non-dual experiences in which i became conscious of Absolute Truth, Infinite Love, and the understanding that the nature of existence is in fact, Absolute Infinity. That's what I consider "Awakening" - awakening from the Materialist paradigm into whats really going on here. I find the concept of a permanent non-dual state impossible without physical death - hence I present that 3rd way of looking at it. Don't call it "enlightenment" if you choose not to. Call it very conscious

@Preetom @Leo Gura Hehe, he's teaching parts of himself that aren't conscious yet.

@Preetom I don't presume to be in his head. But one's definition of Enlightenment is a whole other discussion. He has stated that he has had mystical non-dual experiences in which he became conscious of different facets of Truth. That is the definition of Awakening to many people. To others, to be in a permanent non-dual state ALL the time is their definition of Awakening. Personally I believe that is when you dissolve into Infinity completely. But there's another way to view it - to have had non-dual experiences and become conscious of one or more facets of Truth and then to embody them in the human form - through super high levels of consciousness in your everyday life. To view the world from a non-dual perspective but from within the ego, which you cannot permanently escape until physical death. That is something that takes decades to achieve and perhaps will be something you can infinitely build on while in human form. Of course we are talking in the Jesus/Buddha/Gandhi realm now. That may be his vision of enlightenment.

@Sambodhi nah it's about the Corvette Z6

@Javfly33 I'm sure he's pondered this. By the way, I believe he is Enlightened...it's just that he has his own view on Enlightenment relative to himself. But anyway, yeah, I'm sure he's contemplated this - but also he has a passion to teach others and a desire to pave the way for all of humanity. You can see that in his teachings. That is also part of evolving as a human - if you take a look at Spiral Dynamics, the farther evolved one becomes, the more of a "collective/system" thinker you become. It's not so much all about you (Stage Orange) but in the later stages you are looking at things holistically. How can I do the most to give back to society? What can I do to make a difference in this world? That takes a very high level of consciousness to reach. You can be at a very high level of consciousness and have no desire to do that, and that's fine too. But I think that's the direction he is being pulled.

@kieranperez Yep that's what he is trying to get at. Notice that book is rather lengthy because he is slowly working up to you grasping Being (at least as a concept) I think he says at the beginning of the book if you've already experienced Being or your true nature just put the book down and go Be IT.

@Ponder Oh Ponder, it's time to take your medication now, don't be tardy! Just kidding bud

@Shin With a banana!

@Ponder PM me or I'll PM you later and we can discuss. Nice to meet you though.

@Ponder I read a few of your posts and I can tell. One that has aligned with Truth can also recognize Truth. @zeroISinfinity And I think in reference to Ponder's comment about nothingness, he just meant it is formless. Language breaks down so easily because it's so easy for us to misinterpret someone else's words, or we use words in different ways. That's why this stuff is so hard to communicate. All we can do is the best we can with what we have with words. The finite cannot reach outside and grasp the infinite.

@Hellspeed Yes I have become conscious of it in my direct experience.

@rorghee yeah man i hear ya it's a LOT easier said than done...conceptually we can know what to do but doing it is a WHOLE other ball of wax. But i think once you get past the threshold where you stop craving that's when you can beat it.

@Hellspeed what are you talking about? Being is just pure Isness. It is perception minus a perceiver (which is the EGo). Extract yourself out of existence and you might understand!

@Dodo Yes Indeed sir you got it.