Inliytened1

Yes exactly making it work is the struggle. Our survival and our need (and right) for freedom is what drives Capitalism. However when the few have everything and the rest have little it breeds the need for socialism. Yet this is the art of survival left unrestricted. The trick is putting the right restrictions in place to allow those less skilled or ambitious to still have a chance at a decent life. Therein lies the challenge.

Interesting take.

Are you completely anti-capitalist or completely anti-socialist? Probably not.

The thing is you might want to rip him apart but is it really that far off to say that Hamas is not above Israel in level of Consciousness or goals? His point on the bias of Europe doesn't seem that far off. The Palestinians may be the "good" guys but if they support Hamas then they are Hamas in a sense. If you could say with 100 percent certainty that Hamas has no bigotry and they would just be happy with a Palestinian state then OK. But I wouldn't be so quick to say that either. My point in the thread was to show the bias against Israel in Europe. You're saying well Israel is the bad guy based on what we have seen so far. But it does take two to tango. They just want their own state is OK but meanwhile are you sure they wouldn't take Israel and wipe them out if the opportunity presented itself? I wouldn't be so quick to say no based on their history as well. And it would be foolish for Israel to assume that. So I think he was just presenting that argument and you immediately just shut it down.

I wouldn't say all centrists would be pure liberal either. I am for capitalism for example but I am open to changes to capitalism. But if you are generalizing then maybe. But because the term was co-opted as you say I don't feel it would really fit what a pure centrist would be.

You're skipping the part where Hamas did launch rockets in 2005 immediately after the withdrawal. September 2005: Just hours after the final Israeli troops withdrew from Gaza, Palestinian militants fired Qassam rockets toward the town of Sderot. Later in 2005: Following the withdrawal, Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups continued to fire rockets from Gaza into Israeli communities. A major rocket attack in September, which followed an explosion during a Hamas rally, led to retaliatory Israeli airstrikes.

Well apparently Hamas has agreed to a return of the hostages and a lasting peace so it's in their hands now.

They wanted it after but the trust from lseael was already gone.

Well let's let AI answer: Details on Hamas's response to the 2005 withdrawal: PA-led ceasefire endorsement (March 2005): In February 2005, PA President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared a ceasefire to end the Second Intifada. Hamas announced it would endorse this ceasefire in March, a few months before the Israeli withdrawal was complete. Continued armed resistance: Despite the ceasefire endorsement, Hamas's military wing did not cease all attacks. In the immediate aftermath of the Israeli withdrawal in September 2005, Hamas and other militant groups fired rockets into Israel and continued to call for armed resistance. Withdrawal framed as a victory: The unilateral nature of Israel's withdrawal allowed Hamas to portray it as a victory achieved through armed resistance, rather than diplomacy. This framing bolstered Hamas's popularity, which contributed to its victory in the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. No long-term truce: In the years following the disengagement, Hamas repeatedly proposed long-term truces to Israel in exchange for specific concessions, such as withdrawal from occupied territories or lifting the blockade. However, it did not offer one immediately following the 2005 withdrawal.

They controlled the borders but Hamas controlled the government in Gaza. Hamas could have sought peaceful means to increase the control of what came in and out but they didn't do that they immediately launched rockets.

@Lyubov If you somehow think Hamas is higher consciousness than Israel you are in for a surprise.

Everyone doesn't hate Israel.

And you seem to have a problem with the survival game War and conquest is going to exist for a long time..this is because of the different levels of consciousness that different people are at or.just their general disagreement. Jews were almost wiped out and they learned and adapted. Don't hate them for it. Hate the game. Which you aren't doing. Ever heard the saying Don't hate the player hate the game? Well it applies here. The Palestinians have the same opportunities they just put their trust in organizations like Hamas. Who by the way seemed to have agreed to a deal to return the hostages. Let's see what happens but I have little faith they will keep their word..their word is always half baked.

You are brainwashed to think the land was stolen. It was won via war. We are colonizers and thieves and zionists? Which one is it? Are zionists thieves? Look dude- the Jews have been put through enough hell to know they needed to fight and take what they want to be theirs. Just like any other nation. Just like the United States over Great Britain..just like Alexander the Great and many other leaders that took land via conquest. Stop bitching and complaining. Israel withdrew in 2005 and Hamas proceeded to pound Israel via rocket rather than seek peace. So you see things through a bias lens. Stop letting the left feed you stuff without taste testing the food. Some food needs to be spit out.

Some people are born in the wrong body. Allowing it is probably the best thing about it not the worst.

If you like authoritarianism. I don't like giving complete power to one person it is basically monarchy. Thats all it is. Now whether you think the US democracy is corrupt because of the politicians you might not be so far off.

Glitches in the matrix.

Well said. Yeah the West really rose after WW2. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Churchill. Those were men of wisdom that built it. What we have now in the West is an embrassment. But you're right there is too much custom and thus stage red/blue for the Middle East. Israel is trying to rise above it but is constantly being dragged down.

@Breakingthewall what do you think of the conflict considering the history?

I disagree it's just that you have terrorist organizations running your governments.

Well in 2005 israel withdrew and by 2007 Hamas gained control of the government but started launching rockets as soon as Israel withdrew. Yes Israel still controlled the border but Hamas did not take a peaceful approach after Israel withdrew. They could have sought peaceful means but they didn't. They just wanted to crush Israel which led up to the 2023 attack. So no I don't feel like they are innocent at all.

Need i remind of you of 2005?

You are assuming this is the case. Maybe they just realized that being passive ends up dead. And they wanted their own state. It wasn't a matter of taking out what the Nazis did to them on Palestine. They just never wanted to be in that position again.

I never said they weren't. I said Israel was being demonized on this forum. They have every right. But don't complain about the bloodshed. And don't think for a second that the Arabs wouldn't seek to take what Israel has.

No they just fought for their own state.