Joshe

I thought it was blatantly obvious as well. But there are quite a few here who disagree. I think it's because they were once Musk fanboys.

Watch the Ted interview aurum shared. Elon says the reason he has so many kids is because he's worried about population collapse and he needs to set an example. He fucks for humanity, not himself. Can't you see guys... he's all-loving. He works 22/7 to prevent catastrophe for humans. @aurum Do you believe he fucks for humanity? Because if you do, well, end of conversation. If you don't, you must not give as much weight to that deception as I do. What I do with it is recognize that if he's that full of shit there, he's highly likely to be full of shit on every other claim of caring about humanity. And since this is just ONE instance of deception or self-deception that exists on top of a mountain of deception, the position that Musk is truly benevolent and not operating from near total self-agenda is absurd. I'm guessing this might be born from once being a Musk fan boy or something. Reflecting back, did you used to admire Elon? If so, that explains it. Your position is one that Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax people believe in, which is: Elon musk = humanitarian genius who has a deep concern for humanity. Whereas the outlets that don't cater to the lowest IQ people on the planet mostly don't have that narrative that you and Fox have. If you want to do spiritual exercises to practice empathy, that's all good. I can empathize with Elon, Trump, or whoever, and see from his worldview and feel for him and train myself to love him if I want to. But this is about epistemology. What is actually true.

This dude said he works to the edge of sanity and it’s all to bring value to humans. He then says even his fucking is philanthropic. He has so many kids because he’s worried about population collapse and he needs to set an example. When Elon gets his dick wet, we’re the real winners.

When I was maybe 5 or 6, I remember contemplating "why can't I remember what it was like before I was born?" I think I even asked a parent this question and they said something like "because you weren't born yet." lol. As a child, it seemed natural that I had always existed. "What was it like before you were born?" An unknowable void. "What is it like when put under anesthesia?" An unknowable void. Given the above, I presume death terminates conscious experience, so death is also the unknowable void. Isn't it odd that on both sides of your conscious experience is the unknowable void? It's like you just magically sprang from nothing. But here's the thing: If conscious experience cannot exist in the void, that means all that can exist is conscious experience. Non-existence cannot be known. The only thing that can ever be known is conscious experience or that which occurs in-between the unknowable voids. The "knower" never ceases to know. I think this is what they mean when they say "you cannot die". The knower will always be conscious of something. And just look for yourself, the only thing YOU have ever known is something outside the voids. Does this make sense? I'm not deep into spiritual study so not sure if this idea or conceptualization has been debunked or found to be flawed but it's the best line of reasoning for the rational mind that I can find that seems to line up with my experience and the highest teachings. Is this flawed?

There was a disagreement on whether Elon is mostly driven by a concern for humanity or a concern for his own selfishness. My argument was, where there is deception on this scale, benevolence is not close by and if it appears to be, it's not genuine. This was oddly, hotly contested.

@bambi My only agenda is to be in alignment with what is true. I just gave you an example of a deception Elon just pulled. What did you do with it? Did you do nothing with it? Did you ignore it? Am I wrong to use this deception to put a mark in the evil column? What should I do with this truth of reality? What is the nature of this particular deception. Where does it likely stem from and why? I'm not afraid to answer these questions. And I have. The questions are rhetorical. No need to respond. Don't want to hijack the thread.

You list his virtues and omit his vices. Why? To get a an accurate sum total, you have to list everything. Add this one thing to your total: Musk claimed his X interview with Trump reached 1 billion views. This is just a single instance of intentional deception that has occured in the past 12 hours. Elon says his interview got 1 billion views. Trump says his rallies get 1 million people, bigger than MLK. This is intentional deception designed to trick unthinking people into thinking they are more popular than they are, for the purposes of serving themselves, not humanity. If you disagree with the above, you disagree with truth. Don't know how else to say it.

Is there a name for this technique or do you have anymore information on it? I recognized the power of this the other day and was trying to figure it out. It's like you have to provide a stepping stone and you can't move forward until you know they are solidly on it. Then, lay out the next one, all the way up until the insight is revealed. I did this with my nephew when showing him how to add 10 to 26 to make 36, without relying on memory. When the insight was revealed to him, he lit up with a smile on his face when he saw that he could KNOW on his own, without relying on memory. All I had to do was know which stepping stones to lay out he engage them. It's interesting that only 20% had a shift. I wonder if the others were not sufficiently engaged? Were they trying in earnest?

Seems only a few people here are dealing in reality. This is a simple matter. One side strongly claims Elon Musk is driven by a deep concern for humanity. The other side strongly claims that is total bullshit and what seems like concern for humanity is just a self-deception he operates on to serve his own self-interest, not humanity. THAT is the argument. One side has read reality wrong. That's all. It can be adjusted if the wrong side wants to let in the truth. Let's not get lost in our egos and attacks.

I'm sorry for being socially inept.

Exactly. This perspective transcends stage green's paradigm lock. To call it stage green doesn't make sense to me, which is why I said, jokingly, funny how stage green can see through stage yellow. It’s probably an easy trap to fall into: if you see many stage green people demonizing Musk, and then you see a stage yellow person doing the same, you might mistakenly label them as green—i.e., blinded by bias. I don't think Leo is any less evolved because he calls Trump a devil. He would say he does so consciously. And I say I am doing the same to Musk. But all of this is irrelevant. It all comes down to reads. Not spiral dynamics. I give people here the benefit of the doubt that they aren't operating on deep bias. We all know where there is deep and common deception, there is deep selfishness and uncommon selflessness. If I can show evidence that suggests off-the-chart levels of deception, this is antagonistic to the perspective that Musk deeply cares about humanity. I have questioned my reads and will look deeper to see if they were skewed. But I wonder if Leo has questioned his. Could he have missed something?

EXACTLY! An intelligent person wouldn't write Musk off as a total bad-actor for one or two deceptions here and there. But they would if the deceptions were common and intentional.

It seems like Leo is saying our assessment of reality regarding Musk is inaccurate and the reason it's inaccurate is our biased worldviews. So the meta issue is we're seeing reality wrong because we've unwittingly made judgements from unconscious bias. This seems incredibly presumptuous. What if I'm just looking at the evidence and then using that evidence to peg Musk at a particular point on the scale of deception/evil? I don't care where he lands on this scale. Pegging him on the scale is the point of disagreement. If you can show why he doesn't deserve a high rank high on my scale, I will gladly move him down. I've yet to watch videos to straighten out my supposed bias, but I will. I've judged Elon as exceptionally deceptive because I think I've objectively observed that and it cannot be negated by any video of him getting emotional. He deceives with intent, not unwittingly, and often. That is my claim, which is supported by ample evidence that I do not think is tainted with bias. We can do loving-kindness meditation all day on Trump and Hitler and Elon. But that doesn't change what the reality is. I just care about what is actually true of reality.

I've noticed this tactic as well. Strange how stage green can see through stage yellow!

@Leo Gura I'll stop commenting. Just point me in the right direction of what I've missed and I'll go look into it.

Question: If for several years there's a significant surge in positive media coverage praising the intelligence and benevolence of the richest man in the world, and if, as a result, millions come to view him as the smartest individual with humanity's best interests at heart, then what are the odds that this man played no role in influencing that media narrative? I mean, whatever happened to occam's razor?

Stories like: "Elon Musk, Modern-Day Einstein..." flooded the media over the past 3 years. Notable influencers have called him the smartest person on the planet. If you talk to any of the millions of people who believe it, they literally think he's a physics genius. Do you think Musk just lucked up or do you think he might have played a role in the very popular narrative he's on the level of Einstein? If that's too speculative for you, you can then listen to him on video act like he is providing the team of rocket scientists valuable insights they couldn't come up with themselves. He walks around and acts like something he's not, ALL THE TIME! My right-wing sister is one of the millions who think he actually is in the lab with the batteries and the rockets. Musk knows a lot people see him this way and I think it's because he played a role in making it so. I suppose he could have gotten lucky and wasn't apart of the 3-year media frenzy that was monumentally beneficial for him, but nonetheless, he cons people to one degree or another. We need a scale of con artistry.

and then intentionally making people think he designed the batteries and the rockets. How is that not a con artist? He's not fleecing people out of money, but he's fleecing something else, and he does it all the time, with intent.

Nice video. That definitely makes sense from an evolutionary perspective.

I don't think it's a perspective so much as it is data points or instances of deception. I think she, like me, uses the amount of deception one engages in as a heuristic to measure the integrity of character. For example, if Musk wasn't as deceptive as he is, I wouldn't call him a con. For people who think Musk isn't deceptive as hell.... one of us is wrong. Maybe I've fallen victim to anti-Elon propaganda or maybe you all just haven't seen the same videos me and Emerald have. 😂

I am not blind to this. I recognize this fully. I have consciously loved evil people. But my point is the driver. What drives them. If they woke up and had the thought "I better get going, the world needs me", they would be better than what they are. People like them are not driven by anything like duty or service. They only use those ideas to serve their actual drivers. I'm open to being wrong a little about Musk but there's no doubt he intentionally lies, cheats, and deceives on a mass fucking scale. The fruits of Musk's deceptions are more subtle than Trump's. Trump fleeces money. Musk fleeces opinion. I don't see a case for Musk not being a con artist.

I know what you said. If you think Donald Trump thinks he is saving the world, you've read him wrong. Of course an egotist in his position would court that idea from time to time, and I'm sure he does, but he isn't driven by it and it's not common in his consciousness. Regarding Elon, yes, he's more conscious, which is precisely why his ego needs more sophisticated deceptions. OF COURSE the great Elon cares about humanity. I'm sure the thinks he's saving the world when he needs to think that, but you make it sound like he's a crusader, and I just disagree. Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "con artist" for Elon. But IDK, he sure seems like a con artist to me.

Very interesting! When I wake up from anesthesia and become aware of or imagine lost time, I suppose I then imagine lost consciousness, which is what I'm calling void. Thanks for bringing this up. I never considered the idea of lost consciousness itself being a construct. I was using the concept of time to construct the concept of lost consciousness. 😂 WTF.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

If the devil came up from hell and went to Trump and said, I'll make you the next president but I'll have to wipe out 75% of the U.S population for that to happen. Do you think Trump would take that deal? 😂 Would Elon? 😂