Mu_

Ya we seem to have fundamental differences in word selection. At times you seem to be speaking about almost the exact same thing I am, and at others perhaps a little different.

I think emanyalpsid is pointing to something I was trying to point to as well (again disclaimer, if your happy remain, but if your interested in stretching understanding, keep eyes and ears open). The notion you tell yourself that your seeing from unconditioned awareness is still an idea you believe. To let go of this is I guess to be more in the unknown. For a while when I let this in it opened another layer of being free, because there is less that was being upheld, controlled within. This letting go lead to more letting go and the recognition you shared in a post above that you can't really ever claim to be anywhere, fixed/not fixed, so to claim enlightenment is kinda silly (only reason I ever said I was in 1 post ever was because seomeone asked and I hoped that saying yes would help others trust more, but its a double edge sword to make a claim with that word, you repel people to, and honestly my awakening process is not going to be the same for others, everyone needs life, other teachers, self inquiry, time, no-time). Then for what ever reason I can't explain, one day, boom I woke up to who I really was and who we really all are, Self/God and its remained, wasn't expecting it, didn't believe it was ultimately real prior. Seemed like after 18 years of seeking, facing death, tons of self idea's, observations, connecting with spiritual teachers and hearing them and feeling their presence, connecting with spirits, drug experiences, and a culmination of the last few months, the last thing that seemed to be the final step was waking up to a knowing/memory of my original source, like the literal experience we can all relate to, one moment we dont know where our keys are that were placed somewhere, and then all the sudden you go oh ya they were right here, in my pocket, how silly, AND the memory of doing it is there with it. It was like remembering being Self/God before birth.

@Aquarius Thank you for sharing. Ya relationships can be like that. Both parties have unresolved emotional stuff that always complicates, but this is not a negative, its the potential for both parties to grow. If your into actualizing and he's not, and you guys are in constant on again off again, maybe its best just to recognize that and move on, no blame to either party. There's probably someone out there who is also looking to grow as well, and may be a better match for you, I dont know. This is your heart, not mine. You can still make efforts to take responsibility for your emotional stuff even if your partner doesn't but thats really hard, really really hard.

In this incarnation, no. But I could see the potential thrill of it in testing ones self out in a due or die situation, or a challenge to one self. I use to be vegitarian for 3-4 years + vegan for almost 2 years. Now I 25% meat and 75% vegitarianism, sourced from humanely raised.

the mind-body is effected by its environment. Often what happens when awakening happens or progress towards awakening (although this is a illusion of sorts) what your pointing to as the mind-body is effected since awaking up is the same as environmental change, like moving from a violent ghetto to a more tranquil suburb in america. Psychological effects are going to natural happen, since "environmental" triggers/threats have disappeared. So awakening to Self is from a mind-body standpoint a moving to a new location. You see, generally environment is interpreted by mind-body as you use it in a "I'm here", and theres an internal environment to me and an external one called outside (tree's, birds, humans, etc). Awakening turns this on its head and distinctions are blurred, stripped and one can see ultimately there is no outer/inner (along with this awakening there is generally new truths and understanding that strip away psychological suffering as well, generally cultivated through spiritual practice/inquiry). All these factors are a radical moving to a new environment from the Mind-Body stand point. This new environment has new qualities or "new residents" called bliss, expansiveness, calm, thrill, freedom, ease, love, joy. The Mind-Body (personality) then in this apparent new environment are often effected as a result.

Theres more then enough room in the Self for everyone to have their opinion on this.

All of the above and then some.

Often not.

Maybe you get it, maybe you don't, maybe you want to get it, maybe you don't, either way its fine, theres no "out there requirement" you have to, but as a seeker of truth, I imagine its what your trying to understand, or maybe I've misunderstood. And maybe its not my place, so I'll leave it at that.

As much as I've been able to follow, its in line with many of the same understandings I've encountered as well. But I do admit some of your usages of words/metaphors and analogies you've shared, I have a hard time following sometimes. Its no fault, I get told the same thing sometimes. I guess as a soul recognizing a soul searching for and trying to understand this whole thing called "....." I've been trying to highlight a particular nuance to you that maybe is not my place to.. There is only 1 thing and your nonthing and my idea's and all our idea's on this forum and realizations are "It".

So are you actually a surfer? Your dudes, brah's, profile picture and other use of language makes me think of stereo typical surfer.

I'm in the same boat.

Not that its that big of a deal, because if you truely are where you describe it can be pretty perfect, nothing needs to change. However in the pursuit of truth and who and what you are. The place your referring to as ultimate is only 1 vantage point of all the infinities views, it is not itself the ultimate. I dont think its possible to have a view that is simultaneously experiencing the infinity of all views from their vantage point at all times with all knowledge and all past and all destiny included. This is what I referee to as Gods view and its unreachable and unknowable. Self understanding of this I believe can free you as the "i" and into understanding i-I and letting go of pointing to a state/location/idea of god/infinity/awareness/nonduality and into a continuous recognition that God is never not the case.

Am'ness is still a quality

Neti Neti, even more then what your pointing to.

Yes, well said. And the totality of what you are sharing is you as well. There was never a moment or event in which it was not you.

@SOUL "Contemplate your own experience, couldn't it be said that the deepest and clearest insights come from those moments when the clarity of the unattached awareness is perceiving reality without the veil of self identity obscuring it? How can we have genuine and clear insight with the conditioned self identity filtering our perception? So it seems that attachment doesn't lead to insight but it is liberation, unattached perception, that leads to insight." Definitely moments where that happened. But also ones in which there was confusion happening simultaneously from what I believe your referring to as the self identity. Waking up isn't bound to any particular set of circumstances, emotional, though, feeling of "I" or its cessation, bliss happening, calm happening, love happening, oneness feeling. These all can be metaphorical pointers to the remembrance and understanding of what you are.

@SOUL Ya I may have not seen that you touched upon multiple means of enlightenment, if I recall you were stressing the importance of the whole point of liberation being the actual freeing from suffering. I think your awakening experience you shared is great and the insight you had was powerful, that the path itself can be a distraction. I even made a video on that. However and I go back and forth on this, the path/path/religion may serve up to a point to where that recognition is useful. Because honestly if you like cutting away all the bullshit and unnecessities of waking up, even the idea that there is existential yearning that cuts away peace and contentment can be a barrier or prevention. One can still get caught up in the seeking of finding peace and contentment. Realization is not that.

I loled, at "be closed, I dont give a shit, I just want you to get you." This is the first I've heard of this guy.

@Viking Happy for you man, honestly. My wife deals with the same thing, I've dealt with it, its very human. It may keep coming back energetically now that you've realized this, but don't let that mean you don't understand whats going on and let it prevent you. It can help to have some positive affirmations at this time like, when your feeling this way again, you go oh ya, thats the old habit and belief, I'm much better then that, I'm gonna stick with this new thing I'm doing and see what comes about a little longer. Don't let old habits/beliefs hold you down, because like I'm saying they will most likely come back and fight for your attention, dont fight them with struggle, just understand its old/though/emotional energy and you are bigger than that, and continue forward with strength in that conviction (meditation is good to here because hopefully it can ground you in a place in which you can see these thoughts/energys of lack of self of steam for what they are, and not be swept into the conviction they are true).

The biggest obstacle for most people in achieving spiritual freedom is the motherfucking bouncer at the door. Everytime you read a new perspective on how to change something about yourself, or get a new understanding of what the bigger picture looks like, this bouncer either goes nope, can't come in, or yep I know this, or sometimes this guy tries to imitate verbatim what was said and misses the point all together. It's about understanding something and letting it go and then letting the remainder of what takes place in the dropping after understanding that is freedom. Its about letting organic maturation take place in the honesty of you realizing you dont know nearly as much as you assume you do. Now how do you deal with this bouncer, well thats the million dollar question, but hopefully just reading this brings this motherfucker into the limelight. At that point then hopefully something in you will go, oh, ah ya, fuck, ok theres more going on then I realized. Hopefully one can ride this humility organically maturing so that the bouncer loses its grip.

Thats one type of inquiry but then theres also a equally if not more valuable is questioning into why you do what you do. Like why do I always freak out when I make a mistake, or why am I always trying to be right, or why do I think I'm a looser. Important here is to be completely honest and then ask yourself do I need to remain this way or keep believing this or is this serving me well and if not what can I do differently. Psychoanalysis of sorts. However once you've come to the bottom of something a few times and worked through it via releasing the emotions associated, understood why theres the trauma, the energy still may surface and pull your attention. Its important at that point to remain focused on the changes you said you were going to make in relation to these issues and not waste your time focusing on the issue itself anymore, because at this point old issues that your letting go will beg for attention and sometimes magnify temporarily craving the old attention you gave it when you just aced out of it in the past.

Thats such a broad question. Can you narrow it down? But the best overall thing that fits most situations in stay open and on the calmer side.

Yes, thats another way of putting it.

Good discussion, but thought I'd just chim in with on thing. Many awakened teachers from different traditions and even within the Buddhist tradition talk about awakening in different ways. For example you seem to have a strong opinion that liberation is the end of suffering, which I've heard as the end of craving, but not the same as actual discomfort, sadness, pain, struggle, frustration, pretty much the span of the human state. Suzuki Roshi said its like normal everyday life but about 1 inch off the ground. He aludes to there being more energy and warmth of heart. I believe some Hindu religions point to state of awakening that are like BOOM constant bliss, ectasy and and direct connection with the consciousness of life itself in which you understand all information, can fly, make gold appear. Neo-Advita I believe is seeing the radical truth that Self is never not the case and no need for the cultivation of the human being. One can do what ever they want and its all the play of Self. Your an asshole, you can stay an asshole and being free because thats what is the case. Bliss may come and go, love may come and go, you may hate, you may suffer, but your hands have been freed from believing you are the doer. The list goes on and on.... This is why I've never said I'm enlightened expect in a recent post in which someone asked if there were any others on the forum, but I tried to put clear indicators of what that meant, but dont think I did a good job. There's definately something to this spiritual/seeking/enlightening/awakening thing but where you draw a line and define what makes someone or knowing in ones self what enlightened is, is slightly difficult, because there are no objective standards. I guess for me its knowing without a shred of doubt what you are and the craving to seek has seized. Its almost kinda funny because one could describe it as almost where you started. someone would ask you who you are and you would know without a shred of doubt that your one with Self, and they would ask well how do you know, and the best answer you could honestly give is, well its obvious what are you talking about, just like you would when you had no idea that you were anything other then just a guy who was born with no connection to Self, it would just be obviously so to you. The coming and going of expansive states of consciousness come and go, bliss and love would come and go, struggles and challenges with normal every day life will continue to happen, inifinity and explosion into area's that are mysterious come and go, new insights into human/scientific functioning and capacity continue to form, the body will still decay, Alzheimers may still happen, a heart attack could be around the corner, but a steadiness, equanimity, non-clinging and understanding remains.