Wisebaxter

@dvdas Perhaps when you have a certain goal, which is to recognise your true self, there are multiple ways to get there. I've heard this said before. You can arrive there through meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation, yoga, whirling, psychedelics even. This then begs the question, which one is the most effective? This might depend on the individual. But I'm just guessing here. The answer will reveal itself to us soon in some shape or form, it always does

Yeah these drives are strong in me too. I want to progress spiritually so I can elevate others too, like the whole bodhisattva thing. So it's complicated. Some ego drives, others come from a higher state of consciousness. Yeah I'm with you on this one. It's very exciting isn't it. That's definitely part of my drive too, the sheer excitement of discovering that life is a lot more magical and awe inspiring then we're led to believe. To really consider that we may actually be God....and to awaken to this....this is something that we have to experience, as it sounds like it's actually the case. 5-MeO needs no promoting for me, trust me on that I'm sold on it 100% and I'll plugging at some point this year. I just have a bit more preparation to do I feel. But maybe the inspiration will just grab. I'll certainly buy some like you suggest So when do you think you'll actually be doing it?

Ok this is making more sense to me now. Thank you for taking the time to explain. Indeed, in my experience there is nothing but the knowing of the tree, so why would I make up some alternative version to assume otherwise? The dream example is also very helpful. I need to set up a really vigorous contemplation practice too. Right now I'm just lost in theory land. I really struggle with setting up new habits though, plus I'm just so addicted to theory, books, mental masturbation. It's safe, y'know? I don't have to really shake things up too much with that.

Perhaps then the difference between you and I is that you have a deep yearning and urge to discover the truth, which is great. I think I need to work on this more. Maybe I'm scared of the truth, or maybe my efforts with spirituality come from a more egotistical place at this stage. Adyashanti urges people to really question why they want to be spiritual. I need to spend time doing this. I have a feeling that I'm actually trying to add 'stuff, theories etc' to my ego in order to feel more important, more advanced, or more complete. Worse still, I may even believe that I can use all this knowledge to monetise it in some way or gain power. Fucked up I know. There's a bit of Anakin Skywalker in me. I'm just really admitting this to myself now, which I think is an important first step. A quote from Adyashanti that I read earlier is: People will say to me, “I don’t think I want the truth, I want to do this or have that.” And I say, “Go for it, do it.” And it’s amazing what happens as soon as you tell somebody, “You can do what you want, you can want what you want, go ahead, I don’t care, God doesn’t care, nothing thinks you’re wrong, nothing in all of the universe except a thought thinks you’re wrong for wanting what you want. Now go ahead.” It’s amazing how sometimes when you give someone total permission, how something deeper comes out. All of a sudden they drop into, “Now that I actually feel that I can want anything I want, I guess I don’t really want what I thought I wanted. So this could be the way forward for me. Admitting and giving into my ego desires, so I don't feed them with energy by suppressing them. Failing that I'll just plug some 5-MeO and let it work it's magic.

My skeptical, materialistic side is still quite strong I think, probably because I haven't done nearly enough self enquiry. I'm not saying I believe it to be true, but the illusion is just so solid, if it's an illusion. My skeptical side keeps saying 'sure, I have no proof that a tree exists outside of my knowing, but neither do I have any proof that it doesn't.' So why would I run with one assumption at this stage over another, especially when there's more to point at the tree existing as a separate entity, namely my senses and the actual 'experience' of it. How can an experience be an illusion? Or is the experience real but it's just my context for it that's wrong? I will rigorously question all of these beliefs though, thank you.

I've heard Rupert Spira talk about this and yeah I understand it in theory, that there is only the 'knowing' of something, which could suggest that the thing in and of itself doesn't exist outside of this knowing. But for me right now this is only a theory. The opposite, which is that there is a tree and on top of that there is a 'knowing' of the tree, could just as easily be true, indeed it seems more likely to be true. I'm guessing that deep self enquiry, meditation and psychedelics will help me get closer to the truth you speak of though.

Some very deep points you raised there. How does one know when one's ready? Is there such a thing as being ready? Perhaps it's a relative consideration decided by the individual. It will depend on your goals, your mindset, the size of your testicles, all those things. From my perspective, I watched a video on Leo's blog where a group of pro's talk about 5-MeO and they were asked how you can prepare. I remember them saying that it's such a beast that you might want to work your way up to it and experience other psychedelics first. But I think this was only to avoid potential anxiety during the experience. By the sounds of things you're feeling quite confident so this might not be an issue for you. I have found a vendor and when I have the cash I will buy some and keep it in my drawer as a constant reminder of my destiny. It's only a matter of time dude but personally I'm in no rush. You plug that shit when it calls to you. I don't even have a solid self enquiry habit going yet. Maybe @Leo Gura can give offer his advice on this one as I'm interested to know what he'd suggest.

@Igor82 Just one word....badass. You have bigger stones than me my friend. I don't think I'm quite ready for that yet. I want a few more LSD trips, some mushrooms, some AL-LAD, and maybe a few others, before I start playing with the big boys. Can't wait to hear how it goes for you. We're on this road together

First of all, this quote from Adyashanti: "When we start to let go into awareness or spirit, we start to recognize that that is who and what we are. We start to see that everything in existence is simply a manifestation of spirit. Everything is an expression of spirit, whether it’s the chair you are sitting on or the floor you are lying on or the shoes you wear. Everything is an expression of spirit: the trees outside, the sky, everything. In the same way, the body that you call “you,” the mind, the ego, the personality—all are expressions of spirit." My question is, how do we know a tree is comprised of spirit? I can maybe have an experience of myself as spirit because I can do self enquiry and realise I am not my body, mind etc...but how can I speak for a tree, which appears to me as an inanimate object..

@Igor82 You have 5-MeO on the way!? You're one serious mo fo, I love it. When will you do it do you think?

@TheAvatarState I feel ya brother. I got baked a couple of weeks ago after giving up for 5 months and now I'm back on it again. Computer games are my trigger. I noticed there was a new Assassins creed installment out and I couldn't resist. But hey, the important thing is to not beat ourselves up (or off) too much. It's that self loathing that's a killer. The universe wanted to smoke, simple as. Remember what Leo said about the ego backlash oscillations. It's all completely natural. Be kind to yourself

Are you feeling any different energy wise? Or in any other sense? Some say that forgoing ejaculation strengthens your life force.

Wow, epic report dude. Well done for putting yourself out there and taking this substance, you should be proud of yourself for having the balls to do that as I know how scary it is. It sounds like your experience got a little hampered by the expectations/desires you had to experience ego death and the sheer amount of stuff you were trying to do, like write reports during the trip and make videos. All that will do is stress you out and distract you from going deeper into the experience. I think part of the problem is getting attached to the idea that insights and mystical experiences are the only worth while aspects of tripping, aside from the just being in the moment with the experience, so this can put a lot of pressure on things. Ironically it may make breakthroughs less likely to occur when we don't just roll with it. I know they say to set your intention, but attaching to that intention so that it becomes an expectation might not be a good thing. You were a little hard on yourself by the sounds of things. I feel you though as I had the same issue. I just gave up 'doing' in the end though and let it take me where it wanted to. Remember this was only your first trip so it's a learning process and it sounds to me like you learnt a huge amount of things. You really took this experience seriously, good on you. I'm glad you experienced some love and your reality got messed with a bit. You'll get your breakthrough, don't worry, 5-MeO is always there for that. I just love how many uses there are for these substances though. Even when a breakthrough has occurred you'll go to back ego land. Therefore I think the potential for psychedelics helping you to achieve a healthy ego are almost as exciting as having a non-dual breakthrough All this from someone who is pretty inexperienced with psychedelics of course

@TheAvatarState Yeah definitely, I think seeing women in a different light, appreciating how beautiful they are in all regards, not just physically, is a really good move. In a way porn just reduces them to lumps of flesh so admitting this is maybe what I was getting at without knowing it. They are the givers of life, such caring, loving creatures. Falling in love with their minds is the way forward. This might help you avoid the porn as it would almost seem disrespectful to reduce them to that. That's a good book huh? I'll check it out

@ZZZZ Take a look into your experience of the glumness, to determine what's actually there, in your sensory field. It's probably a physical feeling somewhere, a tightness, a sense of emptiness. Feel into that fully, allowing it to be there. Remember there's the feeling and then the thing that's observing it, which is always pure and separate from it. Stay mindful of what's in your experience, what actually there. I find this usually helps to release the feeling a bit That does sound like a mind fuck for sure. I really want a piece of that action at some point. Maybe you're getting some ego backlash today as you gave your ego a massive bitch slap and its fighting back

@TheAvatarState Ah yeah for sure man, you wouldn't want to go to an extreme with that philosophy. I find It's more just a tool you can use to bring yourself back from already existing extremes of behaviour or desire, to bring you back to the middle road a bit. If you're overly aroused by the opposite sex it could help, especially as porn objectifies the female body. My porn habit causes me to stare at women a lot in the street and think about banging them, because I'm so used to seeing them naked and in that light. So when I started saying to myself 'remember, they're just lumps of flesh,' this helped me to mentally put their clothes back on them and stop being so distracted. But we're all different so this approach might not be for you. You'll never get rid of your sexual desire through this technique anyway as it can't rewrite your biology. It just puts things in a bit more perspective and helps with obsessive behaviour. Maybe I made it sound too extreme at first. Maybe its not about seeing the human body as vile, more about seeing it for what it is, not just as a sexual amusement park.

@VictorB02 When you're ready to stop smoking cannabis, if at all, you will stop it. Trying to force this to happen through neurotic tendencies, will only cause more suffering. You're not in control of anything, at least your ego isn't, so using the ego to resist what's happening will make the matter worse. Check out Leo's video on free will vs determinism to get the low down on this. There's nothing wrong with smoking cannabis. There's no good or bad, only thinking makes it so. Stop resisting what is and just follow the path that seems right to you for now. Resistance is the thing to avoid. There's nothing to say weed will not help you in the long run. Anything you do will help you in the long run as there is always a lesson you're being taught by the universe. the beauty of it is that there are no wrong moves. If it is a phase, then so be it, only time will tell. As for moving up the spiral, I'm a little confused about your train of thought. Are you saying that you think that smoking weed will keep you locked into a stage? Also, are you saying you think weed is a stage green tool or something? So you have to accept that to progress? I wouldn't read so much into weed's potential effect on your journey up the spiral. Your progression will be more based upon how open minded you can be to new ideas, the kind of practices you're doing, your capacity to love unconditionally and to see the bigger picture without judging. Also, I think you can move up the spiral without fully mastering a stage. You just might not integrate the new stage fully. For example you can be a bit green, a bit orange, a bit turquoise. It's never as simple as saying someone is just one particular stage.

@TheAvatarState I think that watching porn without jerking it was a really intelligent move. What you're basically doing there is learning to look at it and detach it from the feeling of desire. It's the association you have between the two that might have made things hard (no pun intended). If you happen to do it again, maybe use deep mindfulness to watch your body state along with your mental perceptions to see what's there. Observing the machine as it were, Ouspensky style. Consider why it is that watching the stuff actually makes you horny. One think I heard a monk say once when asked about avoiding sexual desires was that he views the human body as essentially quite grotesque, lol, which is true when you think about it. All those dangly bits, holes surrounded by flaps of skin and hair, most of it smelling a bit pungent. Try switching up perspectives whilst watching it and see where that takes you. This will be the law of attraction at work. Well done for getting this far by the way

Thanks for posting man. That sounds on the whole like a very positive trip, especially the experience of pure 'love' you had. I'm listening to the song you posted and it really is beautiful. I can almost imagine how listening to it would have made you feel in that frame of mind as I experienced something similar myself on my trip. It's great that this was a new experience for you as well. Awesome to get something unique from the trip. Do you think you'll be able to integrate this into your life a bit? I've been asking myself the same question. The memory of the feeling is still so vivid, so this is helping me to view the world through a slightly different lens as I keep recalling it. Funny you had that experience with the cat as I had one too which was really similar and our cats look very similar too lol. Mine's female, but ginger. She hopped onto my lap when I was tripping and looked into my eyes, seeming to smile at me, the most warm, loving smile. At that moment she looked like the most beautiful, regal creature I'd ever seen. Great that you had some ego death too. Have you had that before at all? Sorry to hear you're feeling glum. Be kind to yourself, relax and remember you'll bounce back soon. I find a nice bath usually sorts me out. Well done for going ahead with this trip too, despite your reservations. You're a warrior

Ok so when doing a certain type of meditation you're supposed to watch thoughts going by, but when I watch for thoughts I stop having any. The only time I have thoughts is when I forget what I'm supposed to be doing, then when awareness returns I'm like 'oh, I had a thought.' But I didn't watch it as such, it's more like I became it as awareness left. Is this a normal phenomena? Can anyone here actually 'watch' their thoughts consciously?

@Preetom What is it about thoughts that makes them illusory? As opposed to something else which is real? Couldn't my experience of this moment be an illusion? Is that what we're trying to get to with enlightenment, to attain a state of consciousness where we see through this dream state into reality? Some gurus say that the experience of awakening is nothing special, that it's here right now, others say that there are unfathomable, unspeakable truths to be uncovered. I suppose all we can do is go deep into being and see for ourselves. I'm certainly over-thinking things. If thought is an illusion then I'm never gonna get it like this am I. The closest I can come to something pure is just letting go of seeking. Complete surrender. Is this the path? I suppose thought is better for describing the path than it is the destination @Anton Rogachevski So it's a state of not knowing, that's what we're after? That certainly feels good to me. The subject\object relationship dies and there is just experience. But is there something beyond this? Once we go deeper?

if all is one and thoughts are just a modulation of awareness, why is there so much emphasis in spirituality on detaching from thoughts and thoughts being illusion? If all is one then surely thoughts are as much a part of the whole as anything else and are no more of an illusion than awareness itself. Why would I identify with awareness as opposed to a thought if ultimately they are comprised of the same thing?

@Jack River Thanks Jack. I'm going to soak in your words fully and then come back to you with any questions I have. There's bound to be a few

Ramana Marharshi talked about the true self residing in 'the heart on the right,' and that thoughts travel from the heart up to the head to become the 'I' thought. But if we're not our bodies, how can we say the true self resides in the heart?