Wisebaxter

@Nahm So perhaps I can make love a pivotal element of any practice. If it makes me more loving - I'm heading in the right direction? If it decreases fear and increases a sense of connection etc

@How to be wise I have to say that from what I've read it sounds like a classic chakra-related issue. You may have awoken some kundalini energy and it's hitting you like a steam train. Is it painful? Or just uncomfortable?

@Nahm Hmm, that does sound like a good way forward, to become as conscious as possible of the shift in awareness after meditation and to notice how your mind pulls you back into Maya. To be able to compare the meditative state with the 'normal' state seems very powerful. I'll give that a shot. Thanks for your help.

lol a heart attack? Come on dude, I think they'd have worked it out by now if they were going into cardiac arrest.

I didn't quite understand this sentence Nahm, could you clarify? Sorry, what's in+? As for shortcuts, Martin Ball claims to have become enlightened through taking 5-MeO DMT. How can we be sure he hasn't? Only he knows. I'm not looking for a short cut per se - just to be able to do things correctly and not waste time

@How to be wise That sounds intense. Interesting that it's unpleasant. It could be some kind of kundalini buildup in your heart chakra, due to one of your energy centres becoming unblocked, pending the experience you mentioned. I wouldn't like to give you the wrong advice as I'm no expert, but I have a feeling that the answer will be something along the lines of 'allow it to be and don't fight it. if you fight it the energy will have trouble flowing.' Try that and see if it works at all.

So just to wrap this one up guys - we could actually blend meditation and self-inquiry into one session? Where we might flip back and forward between letting go (mediation) and focusing on awareness? (self inquiry). Or should we really be doing some kind of separate practice for both of them each day? Perhaps the answer is just to experiment. I just always have this fear that I'm going to be wasting time doing things wrong. I would really love to be able to blend the practices together though, to save time.

In Leo's new video on self inquiry he mentions that the essence of self inquiry is 'observation of observation' and then adds that this is also what you're doing during meditation. So is there really a difference? Could you incorporate the two practices into one? When I meditate I do Adyashanti's 'True Meditation,' where you allow everything to be and watch your awareness, so this is indeed very similar to how Leo describes self inquiry. Of course there are types of meditation which aren't so similar. Could the difference be that with self inquiry you're not 'letting everything be' so much? Maybe you're exerting more effort into the process of concentration, so there's much more laser focus...

Its funny you should say that as I've been experiencing this for the last few months. When I stare at patterns for long enough they start melting. First of all I put it down to detoxing from weed, but I don't think it's that. The other day it was really intense, almost the same as on an actual trip. Glad I'm not the only one. Maybe it's what @Aakash said, that reality is breaking down, perhaps as a result of spiritual practices?

I sense two things from Jim here. One, that he's actually had some deep insights which have changed his life for the better, two, that he still has a wounded ego and there is a level of bitterness, frustration or angst there. He hasn't integrated his discoveries to the extent that he can move easily through life without needing to spout them off every few seconds as a form of protest or as a neurotic need to assert his 'truth' in the face of delusion, perhaps to persuade himself in the face of some remaining 'inner doubts.' He seems self absorbed to the extent that he can't empathise with the reporter and clearly confuses her and makes her uncomfortable. Still, I agree with what he's saying. Like others have said though, this could be the result of Zen devilry. This, of course, is all just my own story and interpretation, perhaps a projection of my own state of consciousness.

I'm not entirely sure why you're experiencing these things, but I'd like to just say well done for doing all that hardcore shadow work.

Good link. This passage on 'Do nothing meditation' helped answer my question: "This meditation is closely related to the Advaitic practice of neti-neti ("not this, not that") and to the practie of Self Inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi. The techniques are somewhat different, but the intention and outcome are very similar." So, maybe it's down to individual preference whether you use 'do nothing' meditation or self inquiry to realise your true nature. I'm wondering if the best approach would be to just use the hardcore self inquiry method Leo outlines where you fix your awareness on awareness, with no 'letting go' involved. Plus it's also building your concentration skill and helping to calm the mind. I think I remember Adya saying something about the 'letting go' being important though, as the universe's nature is acceptance.

I see, so some forms of meditation are more 'self-inquiry,' based, including 'True Meditation.' That's great to know and explains a lot. If that's the case, is the main benefit of concentration meditation the fact that it just calms the mind then? Or build focus? Rather than being the best for enlightenment? Adya says he did concentration meditation for years and in the end he gave it up as he found it too based on control rather than letting go. He says it won't bring you to your true nature. True Meditation is specifically about letting go of control and just letting awareness go where it wants to. I find this quietens the mind quite nicely. But Leo's description of self inquiry isn't so much about letting go, more about focusing on awareness. As long as awareness is trained on itself, that seems to be the core factor of self enquiry. Concerning self inquiry, do all these questions, like 'what am I?' Am I the body? Am I the mind? Not need to be asked? Leo says you just focus on awareness. Maybe the questions are just to get you to the point where you realise yourself as awareness so you can start focusing on it.

I might create a journal for it on the journal section here. Are you gonna post some of your stuff? I'll be sure to name drop you dude as you should get the credit you deserve. You could perfect this technique, develop it further and maybe write a book - could be quite lucrative for you.

@Aakash I'm excited about this. Something tells me it'll be quite powerful. Perhaps it would be more productive to wait until you're feeling a bit negative so all your inner bullshit comes up?

@Aakash Cool man...is that a bit like journalling? I haven't done much of that. I like the sound of the writeway technique. I'll jump on board as one of its earliest practitioners. Just stream of consciousness writing...sounds dope. I like the idea of asking yourself who actually wrote it too. I'll try this and report back

@zambize Love that dude, you broke all that down really well. I'm gonna read that through a few times and soak it in. I like your theory that these practices all point you towards the same goal And then there's the enlightened folk who say that in a non-dual sense even suffering is a part of the whole! Apparently you can be enlightened and still suffer but it just doesn't effect you in the same way as you're not attached to any of it. So maybe you're not suffering....as you can tell mental masturbation is my forte Contemplation works best for me when I'm trying to actually have an experience of what I'm contemplating. Otherwise it just stays as theory and can seem a bit dumb and detached as you say. All I can say it, thank God for psychedelics haha. I'll stick to those as my main guide and use these practices as icing on the cake perhaps

@dvdas Yeah I've actually finished his book recently, it is great right? I like how he breaks it down and gives you different types of meditation practices for achieving specific results. The problem is, it kind of confused me more because it made me think, well which one should I be doing? Which one will get me there the fastest? As in 'there' I mean enlightenment of course. He mentions that breathing meditation is good for relaxing, but does that mean it's good for enlightenment? I'm just going with Adyachanti's method at the moment as that seems good to me and I dig his style. I do love Om Swami though and his story. He has cool videos on YouTube too.

Really? He said that? That's interesting. To be honest meditation confuses the hell out me. I do it every day but there are sooooo many different types of mediation I never know if I'm doing the right one, if I'm sitting in the right way...should I be controlling something? Shouldn't I be? At the moment I'm doing something a bit similar to you, feeling the void, but perhaps without the concentration. I just release 'wanting' and 'effort' and the void kind of envelops me. I guess experimentation and doing your own investigation is important. But the idea that I could spend years doing it wrong freaks me out

@dvdas Perhaps when you have a certain goal, which is to recognise your true self, there are multiple ways to get there. I've heard this said before. You can arrive there through meditation, self-inquiry, contemplation, yoga, whirling, psychedelics even. This then begs the question, which one is the most effective? This might depend on the individual. But I'm just guessing here. The answer will reveal itself to us soon in some shape or form, it always does

Yeah these drives are strong in me too. I want to progress spiritually so I can elevate others too, like the whole bodhisattva thing. So it's complicated. Some ego drives, others come from a higher state of consciousness. Yeah I'm with you on this one. It's very exciting isn't it. That's definitely part of my drive too, the sheer excitement of discovering that life is a lot more magical and awe inspiring then we're led to believe. To really consider that we may actually be God....and to awaken to this....this is something that we have to experience, as it sounds like it's actually the case. 5-MeO needs no promoting for me, trust me on that I'm sold on it 100% and I'll plugging at some point this year. I just have a bit more preparation to do I feel. But maybe the inspiration will just grab. I'll certainly buy some like you suggest So when do you think you'll actually be doing it?

Ok this is making more sense to me now. Thank you for taking the time to explain. Indeed, in my experience there is nothing but the knowing of the tree, so why would I make up some alternative version to assume otherwise? The dream example is also very helpful. I need to set up a really vigorous contemplation practice too. Right now I'm just lost in theory land. I really struggle with setting up new habits though, plus I'm just so addicted to theory, books, mental masturbation. It's safe, y'know? I don't have to really shake things up too much with that.

Perhaps then the difference between you and I is that you have a deep yearning and urge to discover the truth, which is great. I think I need to work on this more. Maybe I'm scared of the truth, or maybe my efforts with spirituality come from a more egotistical place at this stage. Adyashanti urges people to really question why they want to be spiritual. I need to spend time doing this. I have a feeling that I'm actually trying to add 'stuff, theories etc' to my ego in order to feel more important, more advanced, or more complete. Worse still, I may even believe that I can use all this knowledge to monetise it in some way or gain power. Fucked up I know. There's a bit of Anakin Skywalker in me. I'm just really admitting this to myself now, which I think is an important first step. A quote from Adyashanti that I read earlier is: People will say to me, “I don’t think I want the truth, I want to do this or have that.” And I say, “Go for it, do it.” And it’s amazing what happens as soon as you tell somebody, “You can do what you want, you can want what you want, go ahead, I don’t care, God doesn’t care, nothing thinks you’re wrong, nothing in all of the universe except a thought thinks you’re wrong for wanting what you want. Now go ahead.” It’s amazing how sometimes when you give someone total permission, how something deeper comes out. All of a sudden they drop into, “Now that I actually feel that I can want anything I want, I guess I don’t really want what I thought I wanted. So this could be the way forward for me. Admitting and giving into my ego desires, so I don't feed them with energy by suppressing them. Failing that I'll just plug some 5-MeO and let it work it's magic.

My skeptical, materialistic side is still quite strong I think, probably because I haven't done nearly enough self enquiry. I'm not saying I believe it to be true, but the illusion is just so solid, if it's an illusion. My skeptical side keeps saying 'sure, I have no proof that a tree exists outside of my knowing, but neither do I have any proof that it doesn't.' So why would I run with one assumption at this stage over another, especially when there's more to point at the tree existing as a separate entity, namely my senses and the actual 'experience' of it. How can an experience be an illusion? Or is the experience real but it's just my context for it that's wrong? I will rigorously question all of these beliefs though, thank you.

I've heard Rupert Spira talk about this and yeah I understand it in theory, that there is only the 'knowing' of something, which could suggest that the thing in and of itself doesn't exist outside of this knowing. But for me right now this is only a theory. The opposite, which is that there is a tree and on top of that there is a 'knowing' of the tree, could just as easily be true, indeed it seems more likely to be true. I'm guessing that deep self enquiry, meditation and psychedelics will help me get closer to the truth you speak of though.