Jack River

Spiritual? oh no. Just pointing to thought patterns. All our actions are influenced by these patterns of perception/thinking. So actually it all relates directly to the thread

The confused self/ego projects in that confusion who is enlightened and who is not according to its own experience/bias. You see the point dudes...to truly start with I don’t know is really necessary fosho.

What is enlightenment dudes? Coming from a place of “knowing” what you think it already is means you are already caught in distinction and do not realize it. You don’t truly know what enlightenment is, or “who” is. So does self see that there is a necessity to start with I don’t know what it is? And if so what action follows comprehending that?

This order/coherence/goodness comes not with accumulated thought inventions, but understanding the whole of thought itself.

There is no coming to this order/coherence by accumulating and conforming to any “isms” or thought inventions. But instead understanding directly the nature of thought/felling/emotion as a process. Does that make sense?

I’m not following you dude. This coherence I’m talking about is not avoidance or acceptance of ideas, concepts, theory’s. All that is this coherence. You see what I mean? I mean coherence as in a word pointing to order/harmony, as in no psychological seeking through thought itself. Not a concept that self/ego conforms too.

Can we say that “true desire” is action influenced by coherence/order? So the awareness of incoherence brings about coherent action. Awareness is action. One action. And “false desire” is action influenced by incoherence/disorder? Where this conditioned desire is a movement of thought, then action. Divided action. When energy is longer wasted on conditioned action/reaction or divided action.

@Nahm ? I mean when desire, as in there is a pursuit of pleasure, gratification, or satisfaction becomes searched for to bring about contentment that conditioned action implicitly sets the foundation for pain/suffering/fear, and that leads to more reactionary response. Then we get in a loop of conflict. Seeing how this all connects as causal action and reaction is most excellent. Awareness brah?

The evil tends to arise when self sees itself as real. When it does this it moves towards or away from good/evil. Both in this case are still time/ego/self bound. As in still incoherence remains. To make a distinction here, I see goodness as actually being coherent action, and evil as incoherent action. When this reaction in either direction psychologically ends then there is coherence/goodness, and that goodness is not born of its opposite, evil. If that makes sense.

Yeah, as to resist is reaction. When we resist evil, which is an inncoherent action, we are arenstill moving within that incoherence. The evil and the resistance are part of the same structure of incoherence as psychological movement(illusion).

The groovy thing is we don’t “become” enlightened. What this points too is a living that doesn’t resist change. A life that isn’t limited to attachment/identification with its fear based reactions and such. A living as WHAT IS.

Desire is to tricky. It always moves positively or away from itself which still is desire/reaction. I’m just saying understand this pattern of desire/bring awareness to it/self. See it formwaht it is, such as, fear, attachment/identification/pleasure/psychological becoming...If that makes sense

Be headless fosho. Thats kinda what I’m trying to say here. Don’t be Desireless, just understand this desire. In this awareness all action is whole.

Oh I see what you mean. We don't have to give up things in life. It comes down to psychological dependence. If the action we take is not born of fear it’s all good. As long as it’s not reaction based that is healthy. Action that comes from reaction fuels the “me”.

Well, has this desire disappeared for you?, that’s the only way to tell dude. That is not an idea you want to accumulate from others. In diesres stopping there is its own seeing. Some might say ther is Devine desire, but self will conform to that idea, which still remains the conditioned reaction desire. In that ending is revealed the answer to that. Is this assumption that there are “enlightened beings” arising from desire itself? Does it give you hope, and is this not desire in pursuit? Its fun to watch our intentions, motives, assumptions and how they relate to psychological seeking.

What you mean dude

Maybe the word comes in and prevents awareness. Fear that fuels the pursuit, Desire. That desire is a movement of resistance from what is. As in any feeling of lacking, discontent, incompleteness, insecurity and such. It’s all an escape. It’s implicit in desire this fear/attachment/resistance. The opposite of desire remains desire .. it’s an invention born of desire itself. The opposite has its root in its own opposite. Pretty gnarly how mind works.

Intelligence/awareness is not separate from love.

It is relative fosho. Presupposed distinction or preset by there own experience.

@i am I AM lol the me that wants to get rid of aspects is also an part of experience. What happens when there isn’t an experience?

Identification=Desire, which is an expression of fear resisting itself. They are really all the same. Identification=desire=fear=resistance=conflict=self. All one movement of psychological time. The seach for psychological security is the same as desire in pursuit. And in that sets a foundation for fear. Most excellent to see the actuality as a single movement of time. ?

I mean Nonbeing as in not seeing through the filter of experience. I call it unconscious or unawareness as in the quality of not being known or recognized from the storehouse of mind. It’s direct/not an experience.

Groovy thing is even direct experience isn’t SEEING. To experience isn’t direct.

Life changing too. Makes awareness so simple.