DrewNows

Would you say in this sense meditation is synonymous with attention? Or is it more of a result of holistic understanding?

@Jack Riverexpresses an interpretation of the NOW. The interpretation itself can be seen as an idea but the understanding is seen directly. Here’s an in depth thread on it if you’re interested https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/24061-no-way-as-way-to-headlessness/ and here

Basically by recognizing the patterns of self and seeing what leads to conflict/suffering. Everyone has some sort of experience of liberation even if they can't exactly identify it. I believe the "going in circles" is due to how hyped up this idea of "enlightenment" is and over-conceptualizing instead of looking at direct experience without any attachments. individual,selfish way of living is learned, creates the suffering, and may be prevented with collective thinking/awareness

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I’ve been confused by the incoherency of the various interpretations of liberation and insight. It’s almost like everyone is trying to validate their understanding, although I know this is not the case

@Jack Riveryoure saying first one must have awareness of conditioning or freedom before beginning to have insights into truth? Just not sure what you mean by learn/observe. Is it a seeking something specific?

For me, I needed the freedom to seek/explore without the conditioned self corrupting the search or learning. @Jack RiverWhat do you mean here? i am looking back at these so feel free to pm me

Yah so it seems! Necessary until unnecessary. It’s sort of a tricky transition

Great point! No effort, only unattached perception, brings about direct insights into the veil of self

@SoonHeithanks for share. Pretty cool exploring the mastery of a skill/sports i love to do this first hand as I’ve played soccer my entire life. As an adult now only playing top tier recreational I embrace oneness as awareness and it has provided a whole new appreciation for the game. Flow states can be the norm...it’s beaufiful. Creativity is high and outcome/judgement are no longer present. To these top athletes they might say if’s all hard work but it’s a passion and doesn’t necessarily always feel hard as one may believe for the greats hard work was absolutely choiceless

@Jack Riverhaha yeah im noticing we may be trying to go too deep with these...but hey as long as they are coming from direct experience interpretations. This makes a lot of sense, good examples! Awesome dude! How about baggage-less understanding, knowing of the fact, resulting as Intelligence without the "i" moment to moment, there's no personal recollection/sense of time/story in the head how about the other senses? Does smell, taste or touch give a sense of identity? Have you noticed how certain smells, etc bring about memory of the past/behaviors/etc and if so is the thought no longer part of a relation/identity but a "what is"

@Jack River i see. Possibly a sort of going beyond and integration. Do you know how we constantly project in our perceptions of objects and space? This has been playing in my prrception a lot lately as well Mind chatter has died drastically but the self/separation still seems to wanna hold on...seems to come and go Sometimes I don’t stay with what is and end up perpetuating self you spoke of not recording “experience” as memory as much. You are referring to psychological memory correct? In what you call “moment to moment death” this shouldn’t hinder a memory of the happening, timeless as it may be, perfect clarity it shall be but with nothing holding it

@Serotoninluvwow yes I believe it...you say you had ego death in your first trip? No self came after the psychedelic experience for me Maybe this is why I didn’t see more to be better... heres a funny analogy... Taking psychedelics is like going over to the “dark side”: “total dark” yet “very powerful”. Facing yourself is the Jedi way: “using the force” “destroying evil”. In the end “oneness” “nothingness”

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board However just the one has led to some radical realizations @Jack Riverunderstand ?? you spoke of distinctions ending and this was in no self while you were out on the water? Was their sounds? You make it sound like a trance. The first memory I have of no self I was literally gliding around in total bliss ? complete oneness being awareness

Fascinating! Thanks ? Ive had just one psychedelic experience, mushrooms, prior to any spiritual work. It is also the most terrifying experience I’ve had...went so far down the rabbit hole w/out any sort of breakthrough of the self (very ? opening none the less)

@Serotoninluvyou spoke of stages to the null void or something? So the self was literally obliterated in a minute? Can you recall more detail beyond that?

Too much too much! death cannot be an option

awakening becomes the experience after the fact when looked back on...rather an idea in your head about what "you experienced"

@Nahmuh i don't have a water bed for this Nahm...or does this require a partner? oh wait you must be talking about brain waves...sorry im a little out of it

@now is foreverlove is simply attention

@Jack RiverActually brought this up to hellspeed sometime before and he wouldn't budge. maybe he doesn't see total awareness to be plausible but i can't see focusing on the breath to be very freeing when life gets in the way...

just as it is easy to lose im sure. What can money bring you? Do you think that maybe your desire for money is what's preventing you from attaining it? I'd look into those beliefs

yup quite the phenomeNahm

@DodoUsually spiritual comes after material wealth/desire...looks like you have some seeking/work to be done yet before you can turn back to self inquiry When you can begin Truth seeking these obstacles will no longer be in the mind. If you want more material wealth/success you can investigate your beliefs surrounding these matters... How can you end and create a belief? Is it possible to embody the idea of a successful person if you still have limiting beliefs surrounding it? How are you not being completely 100% honest with yourself?

Are people in general more attracted to your presence would you say? Division in the world will be necessary until it isn’t? @winterknight

looks pretty accurate to me! Ha cool! @moon777light