Tistepiste

So this is something I've been suffering from deeply. And it is extremely debilitating. It could be due to childhood trauma, OCD, ADHD, whatever is going on in my conditioning, but the truth is - sometimes it triggers in me something so deeply, which puts me in a state of confusion that I can't seem to get out from. What happens: When someone tells me how I should feel or who I should be, it’s as if I step out of my own body. I then try to merge their truth with my truth. But that isn’t possible. Because those two truths cannot exist simultanuously. So I end up in a constant struggle. A voice in my head that tells me how I apparently should feel, and a feeling that I actually have. At a certain point, I can no longer distinguish between the two. Then I no longer know what is mine and what is theirs. And then I try to find myself again and understand what I actually feel. But I end up somewhere in a kind of limbo between myself and another. And then I am neither myself nor the other. This happened three times in my life where it had a huge impact; examples: First time: I (a guy) came out to a gay friend I trusted at 18 years old that I liked this guy, I only liked girls until then. I was very confused and a bit scared. He then told me that I was gay, since I liked this guy. When I told him it was my first time he neglected that and said you just wish you like girls cause you don't accept yourself and bisexuality doesn't exist. From that point on everytime I went out in a club or had any interaction with a girl that I liked, his voice popped, telling me my feelings weren't valid, and I'd be confused if I really liked the girl or if I imagined, wish it to be. Whenever I saw a guy that was attractive, his voice popped up, telling me I was gay, and I'd be confused if I really liked the guy or if I imagined it because my friend told me I liked him. Basically, I couldn't distinguish anymore what feelings were mine, and what were posed on me. Everytime I felt attraction it induced anxiety. It took me 5 years to get over it. Second time: I had just completed my first Goenka vipassana retreat. It was amazing, and on the 7th day I witnessed the dissolvment of my own body, also called bhanga ñana. I could literally feeling the energy inside my body to come together and explode outside my body, I was completely empty, and a feeling of infinite unconditional love entered my body for a few minutes. Anyways - reason why I say this is that I felt my meditation technique must be working and was excited that i finally 'got it'. The few days after that however I was completely blocked due to something my teacher said about the experience and my whole body got tense after that. That last day of the retreat - you are sadly allowed to talk then, a guy came up to me a bluntly asked about my meditation experience. I told him my body got very tense the last 3 days and that I got a headache and that I couldnt go past that. He asked me what I did, and I told him I just observe the sensation, label it, and then go back to body scan (Goenka technique that we are taught there). (I now even still feel resistance in going on since I fear it will come back) but then he asked me 'what do u mean 'observe', and I said, just observe without thinking, and he said 'u cant observe without thinking, all the biggest teachers say you are not able to stop thinking, so thats bullshit, so probably thats where u went wrong' After that, my meditation practice was completely fucked up, when going to the 2nd meditation retreat a year later, this conversation suddenly sparked up again, and since I wasnt allowed to talk with anyone, and the teacher wasnt of help either, I spiraled completely. Everytime it was silent in my mind, I questioned it, I started questioning what does it mean to "not be able to stop thinking", but if theres spaces between thought, isnt that the cessation of thought in that moment? What about longer periods of stillness? Is there still thought? But theres monkey mind thought and focussed thought. Whats the difference? I questioned everything about my practice and for 10 days I resided in pure confusion induced anxiety. It wasn't until my 3rd retreat that I spoke with an actual monk that told me of course when you're very focused, there is cessation of thought, where the pull from that thought stopped. Until then, I wasnt able to meditate at all!! Third time I was dating someone, for just a month, but I liked that person very much, and due to very unfortunate circumstances it stopped. It was hard to accept it because of these circumstances. But after 3 weeks I found myself being ok again, and my friend asked about the situation and I told them I think itll take me another week and that Id be fine. She then responded "A week? You mean 4 months! or a year!" Its the way she said it with such force, I could see it in her eyes she was speaking from the heart And BAM, the trigger was triggered. AGAIN, I questioned my own feelings, everytime I did not think about that person, the conversation would pop up "4 months! Or a year!" and then my mind went back to that person and started to overthink things. At one point I didnt know whether I was still thining about that person because of the constant pressure I felt when ididnt think about them, again, since I was trying to reconcile my truth and their truth. I didnt know if I still missed that person due to this mechanic or because I actually missed that person. Recently I learned this is be something called "cognitive dissonance", and my brain just cant handle it at all. Of course for all three examples I talked to friends, looked up sources, but still the thoughts and their pull come back and take over. There's very little that can help me for some reason. What do you have for advice?

Your coping Focussing on the problem instead of the bigger picture Thinking in past instead of in future (to solve situations) Thinking for other person, not yourself Isolating Im not okay, you're okay Censoring yourself Internalizing Obsessive Rumination

Keeping this as simple as possible. For now. I have the tendency to make things way too complex than they should be and start with crazy goals and mind stories about it. Changing my ways. The goal is to - meditate at least 3x a week. 45 min. per session. - shortly describe what I went through To - create consistency - recognize patterns - go inwards instead of outwards

Your triggers Open endings (reason: ?) Someone taking authority over your own experience (telling you how to feel, etc.) (reason: body feels control is in danger)

Thanks. Saying "no" is something I've been working on and getting increasingly good at. Thanks for reminding me of this, though, it needed a gentle tap on the hand. However, saying "no" is not always possible in certain situations. If I can't say no, the energy goes inward instead of outwards. I need to find a way to let the energy go even though I wasn't able to do it in that situation's moment.

Thank you! Especially these parts resonated with me <3

I tripped on 15g of Atlantis last night. Oops. It was my first bad trip. Anxiety took over. I tried to surrender, but I was stuck in a very heavy emotion. At some point, a deeper voice came, I asked it questions, it was very wise, it told me the answer to my struggles is to "Start loving it". When asking about anxiet-driven related narrations it winked at me, as if telling me, please, don't go into the story. Don't fuel the anxiety. I have had quite a heavy OCD relapse, the past months. And There's 3 stories thats been on loop in my brain almost non-stop since 2 months. These stories took over the complete trip and pushed me very deep in a feeling of despair and anxiety. It showed me where listening to these stories and giving it attention will get me in a very stuck place. But somehow I was not able to get out of it. I have had only very intense but very good trip experiences before these. Where I was flowing and the universe revealed itself to me. Now I felt like Alice in Wonderland, jumping deeper and deeper in a black hole with only negative energy. My body is still exhausted. And feeling tense. I started listening to Rupert Spira. I am not sure what lesson I learned from this - yet. Well actually, I do. It showed me what it meant to be in the moment, and how my body reacted to it, versus listening to a narration in my mind. These two flip sides revealed itself to me very clearly. When I was just "being", and "being" curious, my felt my body resting and my mind just being calm. When a trigger came up and I gave it attention, I was in a war zone. Of course, I know this already, but now it was very clear on a magnitude x100. I feel a bit stupid, cause I should know better, and Ive been to such profound places in meditation and tripping, and right now I feel I am at square 1 again. The ego-less "Just start loving it", came from very deep, but anxiety also came from very deep. Those two forces collided in a great way. Thought Id share this with you, cause whatever experience is experience whether we label it as "bad" or "good", its still consciousness reveavling itself to us. And this time, the humand mind and body didnt like it, and found no way out of it. And sometimes thats the lesson it needs.

@Michal__ What country?

The mind got more calm, but the body is in distress. I have a pain, needle like pain in the stomach area. Like a very small stone sitting there. It is itching around that stone. My mind alternates in understanding the conditioning of patterns of the mind, following the mind stories and being present. It is not as much in monkey mind. But there's a lot of pain and sadness. I don't want this to become my story. I think this will fade. Will all fade. Eventually. I have the desire to write it all down. The narratives. But at the same time when I start writing it down, I feel a big résistance in actually putting it into words. I'm immediately bored and numb. Its as if I don't want to write it all down though it is occupying my mind. There's just one thing left. It's higher level. It's not from deep detailed obsession anymore. It is more that I can see the system of what happened. And regret the decisions that I made while in turmoil. Even though at that moment I couldn't have done it any differently. My mind pattern is romanticizing the outcome of what could have been had I not. I know this pattern very well Undesired current outcome -> romanticize desired outcome -> find a reason why the desired outcome is not there -> be sad / angry at the event that caused this -> obsess over how that could have happened -> romanticize over how things could've been done differently -> loop

Things are starting to change. The effort to be in the moment decreased dramatically The pain around my heart area is gone The rock-hard lump on my stomach is gone My heart feels tender and very sensitive. My body feels alive. No more raging monkey mind at this moment. I not only recognize the patterns, I can also tune out of them. I have to remain mindful and aware. Recognize when I get caught up in survival-mode thinking. Tap out of it, and focus on my breathing.

Hey all, I am debating whether to go on a silent retreat up to 1 year next year. Probably in Myanmar - or at least according to Mahasi Sayadaw's teachings - which worked really well for me in my last two-week retreat. Old thought patterns resurfaced however, and I feel more stuck than ever. I am starting therapy in a few weeks, but also thinking - I am in the lucky position that I am currently able to take a year off without too many consequences. I don't have kids, a partner - I have a good degree and can easily find a job, and I can sublet my room in a big city easily. So: why not? Now the reason why I write this post is I am curious to you all, Have you got any experience with very long retreats? Do you have any recommendations? I can go literally anywhere in the world.. Some stuf I should be aware of / think about before going? Cheers everyone

Lol this is like 1984. Doesn't sound conscious at all.

@theleelajoker that's what I've been doing my entire life

From my previous post: Ok so, I found out that this is due to cognitive dissonance, which triggers my sleeping OCD. This cognitive dissonance is triggered by - Words by people (example above) - Actions vs words by people The first one is the worst. If someone states something from their truth, and states it as my truth. Whenever this happens, no matter how well-intentioned, my system experiences it as an identity invasion: an attempt to overwrite my inner reality. I am a scientist by nature - so instead of denying their truth, I explore my own truth and try to reconcile it with their experience. If it doesn't match, I question my own experience in every fiber of my body. The outcome: Rumination, unsettling feeling, re-curring thought loops, feeling of powerlesness, feeling stuckness Instructions on how to get out of the loop: 1. Recognize it. “There’s a clash between my inner experience and someone else’s version of reality.” 2. Name the mechanism, not the story. “My brain is trying to reconcile two truths that don’t fit.” 3. Feel underneath. “What emotion is here - sadness, fear, shame?” Breathe into that spot. 4. End the reconstruction. “I already know this story. I don’t need to replay it.” 5. Ground in the senses. Notice a sound, a smell, or the feeling of your body on the chair. Let the world remind you that you’re here, not in the loop. Realization: I have to read more books on pyschology

You have to stop denying there's still the fundamentals of OCD inside your system. Pretending it's not there makes your life miserable in difficult moments. Pretending it's not there makes you less aware of its mechanics Pretending it's not there makes you indulge in in it trying to figure out what's happening. Pretending it's not there makes you love yourself less. Pretending it's not there makes you harder on yourself than you should be. Accept that you have dramatic recurring thoughts. Accept that you can't solve it on your own Accept that you have to be vulnerable and accept defeat in order to overcome the battle There's no winning or losing, there's accepting that these destructive mechanics are there, and that you can make yourself accountable for addressing it in a loving / vulnerable way. Next time something happens that keeps the thought train on a loop for days; weeks; months on end? Don't meditate it away thinking your are being "present" with it, and are "feeling into it" All you're doing is looking at the raw unsettling feeling, with the wish that at some point it will go away. The resistance is still there. You're looking at the resistance, fine. But then what? It might dissolve in that moment, but next time it comes up there'll be resistance again. And then you wonder why. If possible: - Talk about it with friends If not possible: - Radical acceptance. Accept that the thought might never go away. And that it will keep coming back. - Use it as an instrument to being okay with being not okay. Actually be okay with it. But please Your first tendency is to isolate yourself. Yourself from the world and yourself from your self. Layers of isolation in order to isolate your energy on that single phenomena. You're creating a tunnel vision, thinking this piercing vision will pierce through the forces, but it's manifesting the forces. You haven't found the way yet. Not yet. So don't pretend you can overcome it. Be vulnerable. Talk to people.

Realizations from Vipassana retreat Insight During your previous retreat, you realized (even though you hadn’t fully integrated it at the time) that all particles - all matter - are impermanent. Every trillionth of a second, your entire physical system renews itself. In the current retreat, you saw that the mind is the same. In a flash, a thought arises and disappears immediately - but by grasping it, that thought lingers. There are always countless thoughts passing through your head, but you choose to re-illuminate certain ones, causing them to stay longer, which in turn triggers the cycles described earlier. You also understood the suffering that comes with alternating pleasant and unpleasant sensations. No-self: Nowhere in mind or matter can an "I" be found. Insight into No-self Suddenly it became crystal clear: There is no "I." There is no "person" who acts. Things simply happen. Because certain conditions exist, the conditions of the mind respond to them - but you have no control over those conditions, nor over your responses. It is through experiences that you have become who you are, and that you react as you do - but you have no control over that. It simply happens. Therefore, everything that has ever happened has unfolded perfectly, because it could not have happened any other way at that moment. The circumstances were as they were, and your mind responded accordingly, with all the resulting consequences. The fact that I am writing this now is due to the analytical tendency that feels the need to write it down. But I am not writing. There is writing. There is no doer - there is doing. There is no experiencer - there is experiencing. When you feel something - who is it that feels? If you look closely, there is just feeling. There is experience, but no one experiencing it. And what about focused mind and monkey mind? Your focused mind is simply mind + awareness + mindfulness. There is awareness of the processes, which changes the conditions, and therefore new phenomena arise. The system’s responses change because of awareness. It seems as though there is a "you" making a "choice," but that’s not what’s happening. Something happens - a feeling arises. Because of earlier experiences, that feeling now has a certain color or tone. You can’t control that. Your system reacts to that feeling based on the present context. When you become aware of this reaction, new conditions arise, from which a new thought (or none) appears, changing the reaction again. I can’t write it any more clearly for now. How to let go By no longer giving it attention. Thoughts will arise, but stop feeding them - no matter how painful it feels. If a thought feels strong, receive it with openness, then gently shift your focus. Don’t be startled when the thought returns - that’s normal. Effort, understanding, concentration, and faith All four must be in balance. Too much effort: the mind becomes agitated Too much understanding: you begin to overanalyze Too much concentration: you become drowsy Too much faith: you don’t develop wisdom

I have some very distructive patterns in my brain. 90% of my thoughts consist of one of these patterns: Questioning yourself Many thoughts start from a question. The cycle goes like this: Question → Searching for an answer → Conclusion → Questioning the conclusion → etc. This keeps you stuck in the cycle. It doesn’t matter what the thoughts are about - it’s simply how your brain is conditioned to work. Romanticizing You create an idealized image of the future in which you come out well. Many thoughts are rooted in this romantic tendency; don’t believe them - it’s just conditioning again. Romanticizing → Believing → Daydreaming → Bumping into something that threatens that imagined future → Anger. Compulsion Some thoughts carry a strong energy. These stem from fear. They manifest as compulsive, recurring thoughts. Fear → Compulsion → Negotiating with thoughts → Conclusion → Questioning the conclusion → Cycle. Again, this is conditioning. Such thoughts trigger a survival instinct. They feel overwhelming and impossible to overcome - but recognize the pattern: it’s just conditioning. It’s not truly you; it’s how your brain has learned to operate. Overconfidence When meditation goes well, you start thinking you’re the best meditator, the fastest learner. Then when something gets in the way, you become anxious - because you were doing so well, seeing your potential, and also seeing the sabotage that comes with it. Overconfidence → Fear → etc. Challenge When you become overconfident, you will start challenging the system / the system will start challenging you (chicken and egg?) Old thoughts resurface to see how you’ll respond. Overconfidence → Challenge → Fear → etc. Over-analyzing You analyze things clearly and insightfully, but you do it too often - turning analysis into a system or escape mechanism under the pretense of “understanding yourself.” By over-analyzing, you shine too much light on things, making them larger than they need be. Comparison You compare previously “resolved” situations (meaning: no longer meeting resistance when a thought about them arises) with current ones that do bring resistance, trying to find out why. Naturally, this puts you back into the first cycle, which can also lead into the compulsion cycle.

Reflection on the meditation Reflection on the post of 7 March: There's been a few moments in my life where I was told to feel and think someting, and I could not-let-it-go. What is this thing? The first time:

Here are some posts about it!

Better late than never. So I have done two retreats. Both in Belgium, Dilsem Stokkem. I must say, the location and center are amazing. The food perhaps even better. The organisation is very professional, and the same structure is followed in every location around the world. Even the menu of the food (afaik). Everything is taken care of for you, they want you to focus on your meditation as distraction-free as possible. For a first retreat, this is probably your best take. My two cents: - It can feel a bit dogmatic. It is good to realize he is teaching a method influenced by his teachers - He focusses attention on the bodily senses. Which can get you into deep meditation. I've went through different stages quickly on my first retreat. I want to say more, but I am hesitant as I don't want to influence your experience too much. My advice, if you go, go with all your energy and without expectations or ideas. Accept his teachings fully, at least in that moment. Always happy to talk about your experience afterwards Bon voyage!

@OBEler So, is it more like a hobby? Would you advocate people to start doing OBE? Or is it just something to pass the time

Why do you keep grasping back to OBE? Is it a form of meditation for you?

Hey, I have done two Vipassana retreats. I post here to remind myself to write something when I'm home