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@Breakingthewall Okay, now we're talking. It's difficult to talk about these things because everybody seems to use different terms for the same thing and vice versa. I know that I am that. But that's not where the fun is at. That was an awakening and insight I had. Here on this earth being a human is where we belong and where things are happening. It's important to realize that you are prior to everything so you don't get lost in it so easily, but after that it's about the PLAY. Lila - the divine play - is not a trivial thing. It has way more depth than most spiritual people seem to be aware of. If you're ignoring this because it's just relativity, it's just one finite expression of the infinite, the Absolute, then you didn't have this realization yet. We're here to Play. Thinking that once you got "it" you're done is just human spiritual paradigm and false, that's not what this is ultimately about. It's about EXPERIENCING divine Love and Beauty - which has no end to its depth - not just KNOWING that you are that.

I know both from direct experience.

Yep, I see it the same way. I regularly have those moments but between those I‘m involved in the dream to various degrees. Also every one of those moments of recognition is unique and they also come in various degrees. Generally my day to day consciousness keeps increasing generally, but there are times when I fall back pretty hard for some period of time, only to awaken more deeply after. The sentiment of some seems to be that if it deepens it can’t be the real thing. In my experience and through insights during those moments I’m convinced that the depth knows no end. If there is a „final awakening“ it will not be possible to return, that I’m pretty sure of.

Haha, thank God you're the dreamer anyway. I'm allergic to that presumptuous complacent demeanor. It's not achieving anything besides circle-jerking. It's not bringing anything of value into the world. What's the point in feeling enlightened and above everybody else? Who decides that anyway? And don't tell me "you just know it", that's an invitation for the ego to spin some narrative it can cling to while completely convincing itself that it doesn't do that. Fuck enlightenment. If you got a problem with that statement you're certainly not enlightened lol

@Yimpa I agree. But we gotta push through the bullshit somehow, jeeez

Opening myself completely leads to realizing that there CAN‘T BE ENLIGHTENMENT in the way you all use that word. Because it assumes that there is a before and after — it splits reality in half and discriminates in enlightened and unenlightened beings. Enlightenment is bullshit. There’s only one kind of real „enlightenment“ and that is realizing that you never were NOT enlightened. Everything else is human bullshit.

@Water by the River enlightenment is the realization that there is none. That was the end of seeking for me. there’s nothing to achieve, everything is always perfect, has always been, and there is nothing but the absolute playing for itself. I am that. But my point stands, it’s not the end, it’s a beginning. It goes way deeper than it seems. My issue is the notion that there is „just“ this experience, nothing more to see, except „other“ experiences. but there are far greater experiences, there are magnitudes of significance, and we have got a chance on this planet to create something of cosmic proportions. The play of the absolute has a depth that goes beyond what any human can conceive of right now. And it’s about connecting with that. We are not finished.

I know I give me exactly what I need right now. I love every last bit of it.

@Water by the River It's about the CONTENT that's overlooked. You know what this is, great. But you haven't experienced it all, have you? Why not aspire to have the greatest experience ever. It has literally no end. And then there's our planet. Do you care about humanity and our progression? Or does your enlightenment lead to being indifferent? Wouldn't it be awesome it everybody awoke? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. The possibilities are endless in a way no human has found out yet. Isn't that exciting to you? That's why so-called enlightenment is the end of that suffering. But NOW you can really start to explore. You can't just stop now (at least it would be sad to leave it at that), now it just starts to get interesting. It's not about something that stays. Everything will pass and it's all absolutely transient. But that doesn't minimize its value, it makes it even MORE beautiful.

@Water by the River Nice video. That's what I'm talking about LOL. It's so ass-backwards. There CAN be nothing beyond I agree. BUT THAT'S NOT THE END. It's impossible to put into words. Whatever insight you had can be had with more intensity and then some. Or why not just have it AGAIN? It's like sex, really. Don't you like orgasms? You can't tell me you're in a constant state of orgasmic bliss. And if you are, it could be more. That's my point. It's radical Hedonism with a capital H. I could have said the exact same things as you a few years ago, I know where you're coming from (believe it or not..).

Okay I see, it was a bit poorly worded. I do the same, by the way. You use your mind to speak and form sentences, obviously. And you're also using it to interpret your experience. Enlightenment is a paradigm.

I don't question the insight, it's just not the final one. I know that it is impossible from your point of view, but why do you think that that's a limitation? Your human mind cannot grasp the possibility, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I too had insights into the nature of the Absolute that seemed absolutely final (and were at the time for all intents and purposes). Experiential in nature as you describe, not intellectual. But as it turns out... wait.. there's more lol Your mind tells you it's impossible, but it's lying, simple as that. Don't trust a finite mind when making conclusions about the Infinite. It's a paradigm lock. You're so focused on the finality that you can't conceive of any other possibility. And your mind is literally incapable of that. Only God can do that. That experience of "enlightenment" was outside of your mind, but now you use the mind to conclude that this had to be the final awakening.

Of course it's an insight. Just a different magnitude than those that came before. It is infinite, yes. But that doesn't mean that there can't be anything after it. Saying you had an enlightenment and now you're done is like saying you fucked a woman once and now you don't have to anymore.

Exactly. I know that my understanding can not be final, thank God, that's the most beautiful thing. I know that it is much better than I think. If you're open to it your worldview will be shattered and shattered again and again. God loves a good mindfuck. You enlightened ones are missing out on all the fun

Another thing I find interesting: It seems to me that you don't advance here. You have your rigid stance and already achieved the highest awakening according to your statements. You're just trying to convince everyone else that either you got it or you don't. I - and a lot of others of course - on the other hand am growing and changing through this conversation, and thus advancing my understanding further and further. Your evolution keeps advancing a little bit of course, too, because it's impossible to stand absolutely still, even if you try. But you seem to be doing the best you can by closing yourselves up to the possibility that you could be totally wrong.

Yep. Believing is reality. If you really believed that you could fly, you probably could (didn't test it ). But doubt is sneaky. You can fool yourself into thinking you believe something, when in reality you're just pretending. If you really believe it doesn't feel like a belief, instead you KNOW. Also, a lot of people seem to get hung up on individualism. You can't awake if the world continues to sleep. You can have awakenings, glimpses and insights, epiphanies and so on, but you forget that everything is you. The final awakening is GODs awakening, not YOUR petty human enlightenment. How that's gonna happen? Nobody knows, and that's the best part about it. This reality is about God finding out how to awaken. Your enlightenment is still human. These are not merely concepts, I became directly conscious of this.

My path is currently about shedding all the doubt like a snake sheds its skin.

Been there done that. I'm over it.

GOD is the director and he's got a HUGE PLOTTWIST up its sleeve. Prepare to get mindfucked

@Water by the River I agree that there is a point where the suffering and seeking, that's a result of being identified as a separate entity from the rest, ends and true exploration finally begins. But that's not the final awakening. You're just assuming that because you can't conceive of anything that could be beyond that. If it was final you wouldn't be here anymore and we couldn't have this discussion. You realized your true nature, congratulations, but why are there still people that haven't? How can there be different people with that awakening that all disagree with each other? How can it be that I disagree with you? It's essentially disagreeing with yourself, isn't it? You don't have all the pieces of the puzzle because you're still human. Humanity is one. If just one human hasn't awoken yet we're not done here. Because that means YOU are not fully awoken. If awakening is optional, did you have to awaken? Why did you, if it's perfect anyway? Aren't you able to enjoy the whole process more now? That seems pretty amazing to not do it tbh, doesn't it? There's a direction, evolution. You would choose awakening every time, as soon as you're conscious enough. How can you deny that process that clearly has a direction?

Every breath you take And every move you make Every bond you break Every step you take I'll be watching you Every single day And every word you say Every game you play Every night you stay I'll be watching you Oh, can't you see You belong to me? How my poor heart aches With every step you take?

@Bobby_2021 It's true that all is equally perfect. God doesn't move from imperfection to perfection, it moves from perfection to perfection. This perfection is furthermore far more profound than you realize right now. It has a structure, a harmony, it's like an orchestra playing the greatest symphony ever invented. Every dissonance is exactly as it should be and constitutes Beauty. You can take nothing away and you can't add anything to it. Even that would be equally perfect But it's not random! That's also part of the perfection. A symphony isn't random noises, its structure is equally important to the whole as its content, there's actually no difference. The only reason you may feel otherwise is because your understanding hasn't penetrated into Perfection, Beauty & Love enough yet. But even that is part of Perfection.

It’s not about avoiding pain, it’s about going into the darkness and raising consciousness that way, because you realize you are the Light. All shadows dissipate, illusion is seen through and consciousness remains. Running away LOWERS your consciousness.

I spend way less time listening to music than in the past. In the past it was like stimulating background noise. But when I listen to music nowadays I do it much more intently. It’s an activity that requires my whole attention. Also being a musician changed the way I perceive music a lot. In my school days I remember training listening to complex music and learning to appreciate it. It was like a meditation and mental exercise. After I listened to music on psychedelics for the first time I wanted to be able to have that experience sober, too. It worked and changed my relationship to music permanently. In my opinion this, if anything, increased my intelligence.

Because it chooses so. It could awaken right now, but then we wouldn't be here. There's no need to hurry. It's about the process. We love ALL of it, the delusion, the suffering, the awakenings, the red herrings, the doubt, the ecstacy, the misunderstandings, the epiphanies, the disputes and disagreements, all the frustrations and all the joys and pleasures. We're gonna do it, the process will keep unfolding itself and TOTAL Awakening will happen, that's not just individual but COLLECTIVE. And then we're gonna do it all over again. That's the dance of God. Welcome to Eternity.